A little background: I ran a 3:58 at 7 Bridges marathon about 6 weeks ago on a course with a few challenging hills. Decided to have another go this last weekend to see if I could get down to 3:55 at Kiawah Island marathon in S.C., with a pancake-flat, very scenic course. I took a couple of weeks off after 7 Bridges and slowly worked my way back into training. Did one16 miler and was able to hold between an 8:10-8:30 pace for most of my distance runs. Did a couple of 12 milers at 8:40 pace and some fast 5 milers at around 8:00 pace. Week before Kiawah only ran a couple of easy fives. Drove down (7 hrs) the day before the race, got race packet and went back to the hotel. Race morning felt great, ready to go sub 4 again. Started slow at an 8:50 pace and planned to hold that for the first 16 miles or so. About mile 7 looked down to see my pace slow. My legs began to feel heavy. I didn’t have any cramping or stomach issues and stayed well hydrated (ended up peeing 4 times). I had been training in 30-45 degree weather for the most part and it was humid and high 60s on the island, although, I never felt uncomfortable from it or overheated. By mile 12 I was ready to do the half instead. My legs just didn’t want to go. I would feel like I was running an 8:30 pace only to see 9:20 on my Garmin. I stuck it out but got slower and slower the further I got. Ended up with a five hour marathon that was one of the toughest I’ve done. Not in terms of course difficulty, but rather just pushing through really tired legs. I noticed I was getting the “Ironman lean” at about 15 miles and I had to make a conscious effort to keep upright. I have no idea what went wrong. Was it the long drive the day before? The change in weather, or just not recovered from my previous marathon? I felt I had rested and trained smartly enough to have another go but now I’m not so sure. Anyone have a similar experience?
I’ve got Disney in four weeks but I’m running it with a friend who’s been battling an injury so I foresee a lot of walking with a 5-6 hour finish. I would like to take another shot to go sub four perhaps at a race in February or March. Is that too soon?
“or just not recovered from my previous marathon?”
Thats my guess. Marathon takes a lot out of you. I don’t think 6 weeks is enough time to recover and prepare for another one for most people, especially if you gave it your all the first time around. I would say take it real easy at Disney, rest a bit, and then start training for a spring marathon. I think February is probably to soon if you want to PR, as thats only another 6-8 weeks away.
Whats your weekly run mileage been the last couple years? Annaul volume for in all 3 disciplines? Those 2 numbers should have a major influence on how quick you recover. IT also matter what you did in the 3 weeks after yoru maratathon. Did you rest 1 week, followed maybe a 3 week build and another week taper? Or did you keep pushing the harder tempo runs. How are you determining how rested your are?
What races did you have prior to the first marathon and how did your training look. I’m thinking you overreached with you training load from the last marathon and the weeks between. From what I’m learning abotu this on Training Peaks (whether you buy into it’s method or not), it’s easy to think your rested, because you comming of a period of heavy training load, but can in fact still have a TSB with negative values, which means you’ll likely to have a poor performance. But to know where you at, you have ot look at yoru training load form the whole season and how one week and training block flows into the next.
My guess is you’re just not recovered. I would say Feb or March is too early for another attempt. You’re only setting yourself back further with each marathon. It’s surprising how long it takes to fully recover from a marathon.
Also, take a look at your training paces. It looks like the vast majority of your miles are faster than marathon pace, which may be hampering your recovery as well. Don’t be afraid to slow down; it’s counter-intuitive but it will actually benefit you.
I too ran the Kiawah Island Marathon this year. I think the colder temps leading up to the race and then the sudden switch to tropical conditions on race day played a part in the slower times this year. The race started in the mid 50’s and climbed into the lower 60’s with 88% humidity. Last year’s winner dropped out at mile 16 and the female winner was shooting for 2:48 and finished in 3 hours.
Just chalk it up as a tough day and move on to the next one.
“or just not recovered from my previous marathon?”
Thats my guess. Marathon takes a lot out of you. I don’t think 6 weeks is enough time to recover and prepare for another one for most people, especially if you gave it your all the first time around. I would say take it real easy at Disney, rest a bit, and then start training for a spring marathon. I think February is probably to soon if you want to PR, as thats only another 6-8 weeks away.
Absolutely agree. I train with a very good running team (several members focused on qualifying for the Olympic Trials) - the rule is no more than 2 marathons a year - 3 weeks no hard running after each one.
Recovery is very important, but I can tell you my fastest marathon, I have run 34, came on my third marathon in a three month time period. I’m not very fast, the time on that race was 3:58, not terrible for a 50 year old.
“or just not recovered from my previous marathon?”
Thats my guess. Marathon takes a lot out of you. I don’t think 6 weeks is enough time to recover and prepare for another one for most people, especially if you gave it your all the first time around. I would say take it real easy at Disney, rest a bit, and then start training for a spring marathon. I think February is probably to soon if you want to PR, as thats only another 6-8 weeks away.
Absolutely agree. I train with a very good running team (several members focused on qualifying for the Olympic Trials) - the rule is no more than 2 marathons a year - 3 weeks no hard running after each one.
That could also be part of the problem. Its’ at least a risk depending on how you modify the workouts to suit you abilities. High level elites can probably handle nearly 2X the total training load as even a FOP AG athlete. So their easy recovery week, would have you over reaching.
I did running focus beginning in August. Most weeks were 25-30 miles but I peaked at 45 before 7 Bridges. FWIW, I’m also 51 so perhaps it was due to not taking enough recovery time. Strangely though, my training runs went well. Never felt the level of fatigue I did even just 10 miles into this marathon.
Also, take a look at your training paces. It looks like the vast majority of your miles are faster than marathon pace, which may be hampering your recovery as well.
THIS! Marathon pace is a relatively hard pace that should actually come quite close to LT pace. Most elite marathoners run as close as 97-98% of their lactate threshold! Of course, for most normal humans, that’s not quite achievable, but it illustrates that a marathon pace run is a relatively hard workout and deserves proper consideration in terms of recovery.
You also seem to be doing ALL of your training runs significantly faster than your goal pace for the marathon. This doesn’t seem like it bodes really well for recovery between the two marathons. How many other marathons have you run? What’s your PR? If the 3:58 was an all-out effort, or you don’t have a fairly large base, then it’s likely that you just weren’t recovered.
3:58 was my PR and you’re right, I trained at a faster than marathon pace in the hopes an 8:58 pace would be easier. I’ve run about 15 marathons. What I’ll probably do now is train at slower paces with an occasional short fast pace run and see how I progress. To be honest, despite the great advice here, I’m very tempted to do one in February to see how that works out. My main goal in all of this is to #1 keep the weight off during the holidays and 2# keep my running fitness up in preparation for IMCHOO next fall. If February doesn’t work out I’ll shoot for an April marathon.
Most weeks were 25-30 miles but I peaked at 45 before 7 Bridges.
that’s inadequate for one marathon, never mind two so close together… get to 60 mpw consistently for a year or so, you’ll be amazed.
too much recovery and not enough training since the first marathon, would be my guess. That’s not to say you should have trained more, since you could not recover adequately from a marathon off 25-30 mpw training in any less than 3-4 weeks; after which it’s taper time…
but with more consistent higher mileage, you’d recover faster, and be able to actually do some effective training in the six week interval.
Still trying to run marathons well with only six weeks in between is a stunt. As a rule of thumb, not more than two hard marathons in a year, 5-6 months separation at a minimum. Easy marathons are just training runs so not that tough - used to run 2-3 marathons with a couple weeks separation in the build up to ultras, but that was after quite a few years of consistently running 50 plus mpw.
I did running focus beginning in August. Most weeks were 25-30 miles but I peaked at 45 before 7 Bridges. FWIW, I’m also 51 so perhaps it was due to not taking enough recovery time. Strangely though, my training runs went well. Never felt the level of fatigue I did even just 10 miles into this marathon.
Wow. I think we found the culprit. I wouldn’t of even consider doing 1 open marathon with less than 45 mpw… but 2 on just 25-30. 25-30 is light recovery week. I’m spruised you didn’t get injured on the 2nd one when you factor in your age as well.
60 miles is only 7-8 hours of running depending on your pace. That’s not a whole lot of training time.
A little background: I ran a 3:58 at 7 Bridges marathon about 6 weeks ago on a course with a few challenging hills. Decided to have another go this last weekend to see if I could get down to 3:55 at Kiawah Island marathon in S.C., with a pancake-flat, very scenic course. I took a couple of weeks off after 7 Bridges and slowly worked my way back into training. Did one16 miler and was able to hold between an 8:10-8:30 pace for most of my distance runs. Did a couple of 12 milers at 8:40 pace and some fast 5 milers at around 8:00 pace. Week before Kiawah only ran a couple of easy fives. Drove down (7 hrs) the day before the race, got race packet and went back to the hotel. Race morning felt great, ready to go sub 4 again. Started slow at an 8:50 pace and planned to hold that for the first 16 miles or so. About mile 7 looked down to see my pace slow. My legs began to feel heavy. I didn’t have any cramping or stomach issues and stayed well hydrated (ended up peeing 4 times). I had been training in 30-45 degree weather for the most part and it was humid and high 60s on the island, although, I never felt uncomfortable from it or overheated. By mile 12 I was ready to do the half instead. My legs just didn’t want to go. I would feel like I was running an 8:30 pace only to see 9:20 on my Garmin. I stuck it out but got slower and slower the further I got. Ended up with a five hour marathon that was one of the toughest I’ve done. Not in terms of course difficulty, but rather just pushing through really tired legs. I noticed I was getting the “Ironman lean” at about 15 miles and I had to make a conscious effort to keep upright. I have no idea what went wrong. Was it the long drive the day before? The change in weather, or just not recovered from my previous marathon? I felt I had rested and trained smartly enough to have another go but now I’m not so sure. Anyone have a similar experience?
I’ve got Disney in four weeks but I’m running it with a friend who’s been battling an injury so I foresee a lot of walking with a 5-6 hour finish. I would like to take another shot to go sub four perhaps at a race in February or March. Is that too soon?
Now that I think about it, most weeks were more like 35-40, but you’re right, I can be thankful I didn’t get injured (probably because I was going so slow).
