i hope you’ll pardon my asking; the only place in my life i can find a bunch of trump fans is right here and i’ve been wondering this for weeks.
i appreciate the policy differences between people, and i also acknowledge that politicians often do things for political reasons. hillary changed her view on TPP for political reasons. kamala has been all over the health care map for political reasons. that established obama, warren, bernie, republican presidents and candidates all the way back, reagan, nixon, goldwater, forward to the bushes, to romney and mccain, have mainly staked out policies and followed an agenda that was ideologically based. mostly they behaved and voted and spoke what they believed in, even if primaries momentarily bent their trajectories, and even if their views occasionally cost them something politically.
so my question: do you think trump does what he does, nowadays, to serve the country, regardless of the cost to himself? or does he tweet, speak at rallies, stake positions, change positions, to serve himself, regardless of the cost to the country? i could imagine a 2020 trump voter believing as i do, that his actions are entirely self-serving, if i felt that the results of his actions would (even if coincidentally) align with my sense of what’s best for me or my country. but i don’t know how trump voters feel. hence my asking. i wish i was a pollster. i’d love to see this question polled.
I may be getting too philosophical, but I see him as a tragic figure - a Charles Foster Kane, a man starved for validation and affection.
This is a man who has myriad supporters, but not a single genuine friend. Or if he once did, he’s lost them all. (Tom Barack this week) Including his wife. Possibly there remains some genuine affection among his children. But that’s difficult to see.
It’s just sad when he refers to the tremendous friendships he has with foreign leaders. Which of course those relationships are just transactional kabuki dances. And nothing like a genuine friendship.
And I see his mechanisms for seeking validation, friendship, and, dare I say -love- as just fundamentally broken. He thinks those things are won through conquest, wealth, and power. (Like Kane). And they’re not. He’s going to be lonely, lonely person for the rest of his life.
So, yes, I think his actions are self-serving. But in a poignant, sad way. Not in a shrewd, calculating way.
Are you asking what motivates Trump, or what his fans think are Trump’s movations?
i guess i’m asking what his fans - or just his voters, regardless of whether they’re his fans - think of his motivations. i think a lot of people are transactional voters. they vote for trump because they want something very much in particular, trump delivers this, and the consequences that attend this decision don’t register highly. others just hate democrats, full stop. these folks will vote for trump even tho they may not be his fans.
so, fans or not fans, i’m interested in what trump voters, backers, hold-your-nosers, whatever, think motivates him. i think it would be interesting if 40 percent intend to vote for trump, but 75 percent of all voters nevertheless feel that all his behavior is geared toward what will get him reelected; what appeals to his vanity; what will enrich him personally; will keep him out of jail; etc. or maybe it’s the opposite. maybe 40 percent will vote for him but 75 percent feel that what he does he does sacrificially, because he loves his country more than he loves himself. i don’t know. hence my asking.
I don’t think Trump makes decisions based on what he believes is best for the country or what he believes is best for himself. I don’t think he has any idea either way. I believe he suffers from such deep-rooted insecurity about his average intelligence and lack of worldly sophistication that he can’t trust or rely on any experts lest he be exposed. I believe he makes his decision based random thoughts in a moment then defends them to the death.
Maybe they’ll be good or bad or irrelevant but it’s just chance.
Motivations often can be traced to your parental figures or someone close to you family. Donald’s father was very authoritative. What he said was unquestionable law. So it’s not surprising to find Trump making statements and disagreeing with opposing opinions, probably quite like his dad.
We know his dad was a self-made man. I am sure there was great pride in their family, and lessons to be learned having risen from nothing to great wealth.
I do think that Trump believes that he is acting in the countries best interests. I also believe that his upbringing and work history give him a myopic view of the world. But the company he keeps supports that vision, so why would he change?
But the company he keeps supports that vision, so why would he change?
That’s worded a bit strongly. I don’t think Bolton, Pompeo, Mulvaney, Kudlow, et al really support Trump’s vision. They’re trying to manage the message while keeping their jobs at least as long as their predecessors.
The only people who seem to wholeheartedly support his vision are those who don’t actually have to work with him in person.
Edit: And I actually prefer Trump’s “vision” to Bolton’s. So there’s that.
But the company he keeps supports that vision, so why would he change?
That’s worded a bit strongly. I don’t think Bolton, Pompeo, Mulvaney, Kudlow, et al really support Trump’s vision. They’re trying to manage the message while keeping their jobs at least as long as their predecessors.
The only people who seem to wholeheartedly support his vision are those who don’t actually have to work with him in person.
Edit: And I actually prefer Trump’s “vision” to Bolton’s. So there’s that.
I need to be clearer, support comes from Donald’s friends like Barrack, Feinberg and Schiller. The people working for him, or worked for him, were/are just basically employees.
I need to be clearer, support comes from Donald’s friends like Barrack, Feinberg and Schiller. The people working for him, or worked for him, were/are just basically employees.
Motivations often can be traced to your parental figures or someone close to you family.
As a result of the Trump phenomenon I did some research and ended up buying and reading a book on narcissistic personality disorder. Everything I’ve seen about Trump indicates that he is an extreme example of this.
So there is one major thing that people misunderstand about dealing with the motivations of someone with a mental illness. Like children and dogs, they absolutely do not think like normal human adults. In the case of a narcissist, parts their brain actually don’t work. They’ve done brain scans on many cases, and literally there are parts of the brain that never developed.
Specifically, the part of the brain that allows someone to feel shame did not develop when they were a child. I want to repeat this for emphasis, the part of the brain the activates to make you feel shame, and to make me feel shame, did NOT develop when they were children and therefore does not work.
The typical causes of this are almost always traced back to to the parenting, and narcissism normally develops in one of two extreme cases. Either when the child grows up in a very negative environment where the never receive any positive feedback from their parents, or in the complete opposite case where they never receive any negative feedback (think of the spoiled child).
IMO, every decision Trump makes is driven by an extreme case of narcissistic personality disorder. I think many of us (or at I did) were hoping that this narcissism would be a good thing and that his constant need for approval would drive him to govern by the polls. Well, hell, was I wrong on that.
I want to repeat this for emphasis, the part of the brain the activates to make you feel shame, and to make me feel shame, did NOT develop when they were children and therefore does not work.
shame and regret, i wish that part of my brain was a little less well developed.
I think many of us (or at I did) were hoping that this narcissism would be a good thing and that his constant need for approval would drive him to govern by the polls.
what you’re talking about here, this is what i’m trying to get at. but (apologies) not from you. or me. i don’t think we’ve yet to hear from a trump lever puller on this. for how many was the appeal simply transactional? it was transactional for you, that is, you almost certainly didn’t vote for him, but you were at least hoping for some sort of transactional outcome, as a Plan B. would good things happen, irrespective of his own behavioral drivers?
i have honest differences of opinion with, say, slowguy. but i never for a moment doubt that he and i share the same core values. i don’t think he voted for trump. but if he did, and he said, look, my imperatives are this. and this. and trump was the safest wager, even tho i suspected, and it’s been proved to my satisfaction, that his drivers were base. i would have no quarrel with the wager. i’d like to know under what conditions the wager would remain the same in 2020, of course, but i could not fault someone’s calculus if this is how he or she arrived at the decision.
Trump has the approval of the Republican Party so it follows then that the Party feels he has their interests at heart, and the interests of the 40-50% or so of the US population that are republicans. If any 2020 challenger to Trump garnishes support I will change my mind.
To suggest that Trump is motivated by self glorification and it accidentally lines up with republican interests is not flattering for republicans
Trump has the approval of the Republican Party so it follows then that the Party feels he has their interests at heart, and the interests of the 40-50% or so of the US population that are republicans. If any 2020 challenger to Trump garnishes support I will change my mind. To suggest that Trump is motivated by self glorification and it accidentally lines up with republican interests is not flattering for republicans
well, wait a minute. a lot of democrats didn’t like hillary. they questioned her transparency and even her motives. certainly her policies. but they voted for her anyway. me? maybe i’m just beyond naive, but i didn’t mind her. i was all in for barack. hillary? i wasn’t in love. but mine was not a hold-my-nose vote. however, i know staunch democrats who were as antithetical to hillary as to trump. (hence his election result.) some voted for her anyway. i don’t question their integrity. it was a binary choice. how can i fault republicans for making a binary choice vote? i can fault them for making that particular choice. but i can’t fault anyone on either side for choosing someone they had serious reservations about.
how can i fault republicans for making a binary choice vote? i can fault them for making that particular choice. but i can’t fault anyone on either side for choosing someone they had serious reservations about.
how can i fault republicans for making a binary choice vote? i can fault them for making that particular choice. but i can’t fault anyone on either side for choosing someone they had serious reservations about.
This is doublespeak.
in what way? what i’m saying is, it’s not dishonorable to make a binary choice for less than ideal motives or rationale. that doesn’t mean i can’t find honest disagreement with the rationale. if you choose to race a road bike instead of a tri bike in a no-draft race, and you come to this decision through a best effort analysis, i can’t fault your integrity. but i can still think your analysis and result were lacking.
just as an aside, do you intend to answer my question? if not, fine. i suspected i’d get crickets from trump voters. i hoped for better. you never know unless you ask.
I may be getting too philosophical, but I see him as a tragic figure - a Charles Foster Kane, a man starved for validation and affection.
This is a man who has myriad supporters, but not a single genuine friend. Or if he once did, he’s lost them all. (Tom Barack this week) Including his wife. Possibly there remains some genuine affection among his children. But that’s difficult to see.
It’s just sad when he refers to the tremendous friendships he has with foreign leaders. Which of course those relationships are just transactional kabuki dances. And nothing like a genuine friendship.
And I see his mechanisms for seeking validation, friendship, and, dare I say -love- as just fundamentally broken. He thinks those things are won through conquest, wealth, and power. (Like Kane). And they’re not. He’s going to be lonely, lonely person for the rest of his life.
So, yes, I think his actions are self-serving. But in a poignant, sad way. Not in a shrewd, calculating way.
Wow. This! I found myself just nodding along as I read this.
To suggest that Trump is motivated by self glorification and it accidentally lines up with republican interests is not flattering for republicans
Disagree somewhat; a good economy is in the interest of pubs and dems alike. As I posted elsewhere, IMO the economy is the only thing to Trump, and right now US economic performance is directly tied to Trump’s ego. I think most of his decisions in almost every area of governance are driven by that. He’s kind of the Chico Escuela (“baseball been very good to me”) president; knows nothing about anything else, but thinks he knows the economy, and FP, regulatory, environment, etc all are designed to help his goal area of the economy.
ps. I think you’re correct in that it will not end well for the pub party, even if the economy does not dip hard, incompetence in multiple other areas is not a good look…and the economy will probably dip to some extent too.
This is a difficult question. I’m going to approach it from another angle.
How did Obama’s motivation differ from Hillary’s motivation?
If you believe the motivations of Obama and Hillary are mostly similar then why not also think that Trump’s motivations are also similar?
Occam’s razor, right?
