Are full suits faster than sleeveless? (just starting, fair swimmer at best, doing mostly sprints)
Just as there is no such thing as racing clinchers, there is no such thing as a sleeveless racing wetsuit.
If you want to go fast, you have to have sleeves. Look at the wetsuits worn by every major pro triathlete regardless of which wetsuit compnay sponsors them. They ALL have sleeves.
No racing sleeveless racing wetsuits - Really???
I have 2 QR’s. 1 full and 1 sleeveless. I like the sleeveless better than the full because it (a) keeps me cooler and (b) less constricting on the shoulders.
What makes the full faster?
I would have never in a milion years thought there was a difference - I thought it was water temp related as to what suit to choose.
You guys know I just said that to start trouble…
Anyway, we did test sleeveless vs. full sleeve suits a number of year ago. We found out, along with Keith Simons formerly of Ironman Wetsuits (now with X-Terra I believe).
We found out that the full sleeve were MUCH faster.
I think these are the reasons:
- Better hydrodynamics.
- Better flotation.
That’s about it. Pretty simple. The key thing is getting it on right.
My experience as a retailer is that most of our customers who buy sleeveless suits regret it and, if they had it to do over again, would have bought full suits. We always advise (when asked) that people buy full suits.
I often get asked this question, and typically I tend to answer that the fullsuit will be faster than the long john. Primarily this is due to superior buoyancy.
Obviously the more rubber in a suit, the more buoyant it will be, so there’s one reason. The other is that when you wear a LJ you have a big gaping hole around your shoulders, this tends to let in a little more water than say a tight fitting wrist, so again I’d check up another notch to the fullsuit.
So I would sway towards the fullsuit, until a few of our sponsored pros returned some pretty slick times in Lj’s in the pool. While many people are faster in a Fullsuit, if you fit a LJ well, especially around the arm gusset, then there is minimal and in some cases no difference between the two. Just remember to make sure you wetsuit company doesn’t shirk on rubber in between their fullsuit and LJ (Our LJ 's use the same torso buoyancy panelling as their respective fullsuits).
For purchasing advice, I recommend going with a fullsuit, unless the majority of your swimming is in very warm temperatures, and you are concerned with over heating in the water. For most people this is not a problem, and go with a fullsuit, you’ll be able to use it in all water temperatures, until wetsuits are illegal, but if your concerned about overheating, then a LJ might be an ideal choice.
People also comment about the unrestrictive advantage of a LJ, IMO, good fullsuits and by good I mean any top suit produced in the last 2 years, offers so little resistance in the shoulders that this is not a valid argument. People who have pain or fatigue in the shoulders in their current suits, have eliminated this problem with a new suit.
Thats my 10c
Steve Nicholls, Ironman Wetsuits, steve@ironmanwetsuits.com
"We found out that the sleeveless were MUCH faster.
I think these are the reasons:
- Better hydrodynamics.
- Better flotation. "
Wait… say that again…
-
What does Better hydrodynamics mean?
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Digging further: It takes more work to work the shoulders in a full (in my novice opinion)… Looking at the big picture, isn’t that a concern in the long haul of a triathlon… reducing muscle fatigue?
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What about the water aerodynamics of a sleeveless, ie the cut around the shoulders - does this increase drag?
Massive typo OCTrigeek. I edited it.
It should have read: “Full suits are fastest”. Thank you for catching that!
Wetsuits today are all about buoyancy, the more the better, no matter what, especially for weaker swimmers.
Many people, especially pros are overheating during the swim, because they have to wear a fullsuit to be competitive, and the modern wetsuits are very warm.
I think it’s a real disservice, if not downright dangerous, when races (especially small local races) just say, ‘Oh yeah, the water is below 78, wetsuits are allowed.’ when the water is really warmer. A huge cheer goes up from the huddled masses of lousy swimmers, but the better swimmers then have to contend with almost passing out because of overheating. Yes, they could wear a sleeveless, or ‘go naked’, but it would mean giving up a huge competitive advantage.
They should make wetsuits illegal above 60 degrees. 
until wetsuits are illegal
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Is this comment meant to imply that there is movement afoot to make wetsuits illegal in competition?
Just curious.
Vince
"… the fullsuit will be faster than the long john.
Primarily this is due to superior buoyancy… Further, a big gaping hole around your shoulders, this tends to let in a little more water than say a tight fitting wrist…"
OK, I’ll buy that. In your situation, you work for a wetsuit company, so given that you know how to pick a perfectly fitting wetsuit and you own them my question is: What time difference are we talking over say a 1/2 IM distance when wearing a full vs. a LJ.
This is very interesting - thanks for your knowledge dump!
I assume he meant, “until the water temperature is above the legal limit (78 I believe) for wetsuits.”
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Interesting. I can see hydrodynamics playing a role, I guess. But I come from a swimming background and people talk about shaving down and how that’s really 99% psychological and 1% hydrodynamics. I guess I would have never guessed that the hydrodyanmics of a wetsuit would have played that great of a role.
Also, I would have guessed that floatation in the arms would have played a minimal role in going faster. I would think that the bouyancy that you need would be primarily in the legs and minorly in the chest.
And on top of all that, I would think that most people would be more comfortable in a sleeveless (less shoulder restriction), which I would think would make them feel better about how they feel in the water and lead to a better swim time.
But I guess real world test results all prove me otherwise. At least the ones that I’ve read so far. I’m hoping to buy a DeSoto wetsuit in the very near future. I’ll probably try both a full and sleeveless version and do a real world test myself. If I do, I’ll be sure to post my findings here.
Bear in mind a key feature to wetsuit design is not only floatation, but where the floatation is. I learned that reluctantly and the hard way from Dan Empfield.
The thing that makes the DeSoto T1 so fast is that it forces the body into a fast swimming “angle of attack” becasue so much of the bouyancy is in the legs. AS Terry Laughlin says, it forces you to “press the bouy” or “swim downhill”. Your legs are sheathed in 360 degrees of Yamamoto 5mm goodness. It forces them to the surface. The suit is more hydrodynamic than bare skin, but the POSITION is the most hydrodynamic part.
Also, I find for me, the independent movement of the top and bottom makes swimming less fatiguing. I can get a more precise fit in a T1 also. I wear a size 4 top and a size 3 bottom. You can’t get custom fits like that in a one piece.
Any significant time difference between the Desoto full vs sleeveless?
Unfortunately OCTriGeek, I didn’t test that.
I’ve tried most brands of wetsuits, and I’ve never swam as fast in a full as I have in a sleeveless. Desoto T1 is as close to fast as I can get in a full, and that’s only equal to sleeveless pace.
I think it’s a personal thing, I don’t have the greatest shoulder flexibility. The only way to really know is to test it yourself, the opinion of others means almost zilch.
In a properly fitting sleeveless, there should be very little flow-through. And unless it’s ass-cold, temperature control is a very important (and often overlooked) thing, particularly in Ironman racing.
If you’re even slightly feeling “warmish” during an IM swim, you’re hurting yourself later on, when that 25 sec. a full suit might have saved you won’t seem like much.
b
temperature control is a very important (and often overlooked) thing, particularly in Ironman racing.
The fullsuit was way too hot for me at LP in 2002. I was heat-bonked all the way through the first lap of the bike, and never really recovered all day. A veteran IMer would have noticed a sure sign of dehydration: I didn’t pee even once all day.
Swimming is my best tri leg, and I usually come out of the water relaxed and psyched and ready to ride. But, at LP, I was wrecked. Mike Plumb saw me stumbling over to T1 and later said, “Hey, you didn’t look so good after the swim…”
I think a fullsuit is faster on me, but I’m not gonna swim 2.4 in one in 70+ degree water again.
I can’t believe you guys haven’t read this:
http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/swimcenter/longvshort.html
Jeff
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Read some research in an ASCA newsletter last year – “it depends” – for many swimmers there was no material difference. Interestingly, they also had a thing about drafting and even 10s back there was a material benefit when swimming LCM.
Did a series of TTs before Ultraman (400s, 500s and 1000s, LCM) and could notice no difference (HR or Pace) between sleeves and no sleeves. In open water, I perform better with a sleeveless but this could all be in my head. I find that my stroke mechanics are better without sleeves.
g
Definitely meant the temperature making the suits illegal on the day, sheesh, I’d be looking for a new job 
Steve
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