Echo Monty, with 3:00+ IM times put those babies on 4m. The extra 20s is a game changer. This isn’t freestyle. Those breaststroke pullouts suck just a little bit less with even a tiny bit more rest.
Strokes are always best done fast, or at least rested. Quite honestly so is freestyle, but especially the other 3. It’s ok to sit on the wall, breathe deeply, and feel like you’re gonna rip.
3600 SCY. Took the advice on this fish thread and happy w/the results today.
800(11:42), 200IM K
IM set: 3x300@6:00(4:40,4:38),2x200IIm@4:00(3:02,3:01),2x100IM@2:00(1:28,1:27) was able to descend
200IM K
10x100P@1:30(1:17-19), 2x50@1:00(36-7), 4x25@40(16-7)
Yes, I agree with the extra time on IM sets. The masters group I swim with often generally does a lot of short rest unfortunately. A mix of former swimmers just wanting a workout means I’m just muddling through most non-free sets. It’s nice to do a solo IM set, increase the rest, and really focus on effort and technique. Been trying to actually get better at IM rather then just getting through group sets. I did this last Sunday as a solo set.
W/U: 700 (300 swim choice/fins, 200 kick w/ fins, 2 x 100 buoy)
Main:
- 100 IM for time (1:28)
Rest 2:00
How much rest you taking on those fast 25s? A pair of :20 BR I’d expect a fast 50 to be :42-43, and based on your 25 stroke times and that 1:08 100 FR, you’ve got low 1:20s in you on a 100 IM, if not sub. Keep going after it!
My day was filled with the unsettling realization that I cannot increase my stroke rates. I don’t know why but the body just does not want to move quicker. Speaking of 25 BR, I did a drill/swim combo 16x25 on :40 and my 1P2K BR are 21, my “glide” BR are 20, and my “hard” BR are 19. It’s so bad, I tried to turn it over and I went from 6 strokes to 7 strokes (thinking I was turning it over) and dropped a whopping 1s. @monty do you have anything up your sleeve to work tempos?
It’s not just BR, it’s all strokes. I’m open to any suggestions.
I’m with Bflo here, that IM time is waaaay too slow for your other swims. We are just about equal in all the strokes and free, but for sure I would have been 1;18 or so on that IM.. Did you just cruise it?? And the breast 50 definitely should be in the 42/43 range doing 20’s for 25’s..
Hey but great set there, I may pinch it and give it a go when I get over this cold..
Like you I get stuck into a set pace and stroke count, but when I do want to up the tempo, I do it with my breathing. In breast I exhale really quick and it feels like I only take a half breath going in, to get my head and stroke back down. But funny thing is that I still get a full exhale, so getting way more than it feels like. Use the breath on other strokes too, speed it up or skip it in fly and free to ramp up the cadence. But like you, I only get one more stroke in breast when I hammer the strokes, 7 normally, and only 8 and rarely 9 when humping it. I think it also has to do with the kick recovery, got to work on really kicking down hard and fast with that hybrid dophin, and get legs up quickly for next push…
An aspirational ‘form’ day:
150 drill sets
3 x 25 drill / 50 fr / 75 drill
1 x 150 ‘perfect form’ fr
4 x broken 200s
IM order – 25 stroke / 100 free / 75 stroke
16 x 25s on :35 strong
Took a while, but:
https://vimeo.com/1158027656?fl=ip&fe=ec
Still been touching water most days. Catch-up drill and fist drill feel pretty good, 50s with no aids are around 55sec but still not very repeatable.
Got in my fourth swim of the week for the second week in a row. This time upping my swim today over last Sunday from 42 x 100SCM to 50 x 100SCM w/30 seconds rest. Was able to make it all the way to 42 before pulling out the pullbouy. Last two were a combo of fly, back, free. Average while keeping the heart rate low was 1:56/100m. Next week looking to hit 60 on my way to 70.
Give me a chance to write back when i can get on the computer at work Monday.
have you played around with a tempo trainer? I can get my br rating high, but fr and back feel a lot higher than they are id say. I suspect I can’t exceed much more than 70 without spinning. I have a more catch up style freestyle and breath to the right, really have to drop my left elbow to rate higher than that (that is my perception of the feeling)
I have thought about getting one. I just do not like, borderline hate, swimming with a cap. But if it does the job.. when you say 70, what does 70 represent? Strokes per minute?
Same here on the cap front. I’ve never used a TT but I’m curious to try. Would stick it in the trunks and see if the beep carries
yes I would say around 70 spm at full tilt. Much happier mucking around in the 50s and relaxing I suspect. Again never used a TT but when I was really working on DPS it was even lower.
At first glance, it does look like you could get better body position, the legs might be sinking a little, it could also be the angle a little. You could work on posture kick, arms out front superman or streamline position and light kick, pressing upper body down to bottom until you feel the kick is absolutely on the surface. Once you get the hang of that, you try to swim from that position and hold that body position as you finish the length.
Second, it appears you could be more patient setting up your catch. Right after entry you’re already trying to pull but the arm is staying real straight. So a couple things to help could be holding that arm extended, hand below the surface for just a bit longer, then ensuring you catch with your forearm. Think of your elbow being the hinge and it stays put and you “grab” the water with your forearm and hold that water with your arm much closer to 90 degrees rather than the current straight out 180.
I don’t follow this page, but I liked the side-by-side comparison of good/bad catch. And if you notice, even his “bad” catch has more bend and water hold than you’re probably getting right now.
This Could (Finally) Change Your Catch
There are good resources out there that go into greater detail. Andrew Sheaff has a ton of video analysis of propulsion (for all strokes) and it’s definitely geared towards competitive swimming, but having a visual is so nice. He has a YT page. There are other pages as well, eventually you realize they’re all saying similar things you need to find the one that makes you get it.
So while you are doing catch-up drill and/or your fist drills, those are all good things, but pair them with an improved catch for better results.
Appreciate the input form you and @monty . That set I was taking whatever rest I felt like to feel recovered, would have been generous, 20 seconds stretching to 40 seconds on the fly. The IM for time I was really trying on. I agree I should probably be faster on 50s and then on the 100 IM, but feel I’m running up against a few problems. 1) form breaks down considerably on the second 25 on fly and back. Figure I just lack the muscular and neuromuscular endurance at the moment. 2) My top end is quite poor across swim, bike, and run. That 1:08 100 free is about the limit and the IM stretches past. So things just slow down. 3) Turn technique. Freestyle flip turns I feel are good. Back to breast is poor, and I’m just gassed at the breast to free. I also struggle with CO2 tolerance, so can do a good breast pullout on a 25 or 50, but in the IM its very poor or I skip it. But I feel good getting the 25s to where they are so far. Got some things to work on piece by piece though.
Friday morning set last week:
W/U: - 600 mixed swim and kick
Main, all free:
Ya something is holding your 100IM back for sure. Your description of being too gassed to do a proper pullout on breast, perhaps going out too hard first 50? I have played around a lot with front and back half of all my IM’s, and for me it ends up being just about an even split backing out the start. IF I go faster early, usually pay for it at the end and suffer. Your 1;08 at the end free was the real indicator, that is a great last swim at the end of that set, so perhaps it is just pacing and some turn stuff..
I found this today from Gary Hall Jr., and being out a week now being sick, it rang more true than ever..Didnt realize his father really didn’t coach him. And bringing back a recent thread about folks that would get challenged to their credentials, what a resume Sr, had going into the games. 4 years undefeated, that’s next level dominance..But then along comes Spitz and the rest is history..
Speaking of fly, the US team just got a whole lot faster in all 3 distances. I have followed this guy for a few years now, did not know he never lived in Canada, but was a Vegas swim kid his whole life. And we needed a top 100/200 flier for the many relays, and he is still very young and rocking the speedy NCAA’s..
Relay opportunities is my guess.
I never thought about separating catch and pull at all, so yeah, that tracks. Thanks.
Re: body position, I feel like I can stay pretty high in the water and well-aligned kicking in streamline with a snorkel or on my back (albeit very slow without fins), but it starts falling apart once I start rolling to breathe.