I posted this in another thread, but thought it might be interesting to get some feedback:
What would you have done?
I raced Sunday, the start was in 3 waves: young men, older men, women. Women started 3 to 6 minutes behind the men, and had to pass the slower men. I passed a guy on the bike, who then came back for a repass. After his front wheel crossed the plane of my front wheel (putting the onus on me to fall back), he stops pedaling and sits up to talk and discuss bikes. I stop pedaling, and have this weird conversation where I’m trying to convince him to start pedaling again because he is putting me at risk of a drafting penalty! He’s arguing that he is not my competition, that it isn’t drafting because he is beside me, etc. He finally moved ahead, I fell back 3 lengths, then repassed him and dropped him. He apologized as I went by, saying he didn’t realize about the drafting rules.
I realize he was bop for the guys, and was feeling more conversational than competitive, but I was actually racing! I won my age group, and fortunately the time lost was not significant in my placing one way or another. It was surreal, though.
Looking back now, another way to handle it would have been to go ahead and pull ahead, even though his wheel had passed mine, because he was no longer acting as the aggressor. Thoughts?
Sounds like you did the right thing: dropped back & then repassed. I’ve had a similar scenario happen frequently, they put us ladies in the back and then we have to pass a bunch of guys. They don’t like it (and may not understand the whole drafting thing) so you have to do the pass & re-pass frequently.
Wow. So how fast were you two going when he started hitting on you? Some guys …
But to answer your question, I would have put the hammer down and pulled away. But that’s only because I’m not racing for the win yet. In your case, a two-minute penalty would have been much worse than whatever amount of time you lost doing your uncomfortable little dance with this guy. You probably did the right thing.
I don’t know how fast we were going at the time - 19 or 20mph? That is, until we stopped pedaling…
I talked to a ref after the race, and he thought I should have just pulled away. He said that if he saw that, and I had pulled away, the guy passing would have stopped being the “aggressor” (his word), and the penalty would have been on him. I think that would be a close call for a ref to make - it is hard enough to tell what is going on when you come up behind folks on a motorcycle - it is just a moment in time. If the person on the right being passed suddenly pulls ahead, all kinds of infractions come to mind that would be leveled on the person on the right, not the left (passing on the right, overtaken rule).
I’d love to find read the rule pertinent to the scenario that would justify pulling away.
As an official, if I had seen him try to pass you on the left and you (having been overtaken) pulling away, I would assess the penalty to you. However, as an official that is very cautious to be fair, I would have made sure to assess the situation for long enough to know that he was not blocking, that his front wheel had in fact crossed the plane of your wheel, etc.
Perhaps the right thing to do, although I realize it might be difficult, would be to drop back out of the drafting zone and pass him back up if, in fact, you were the faster racer over the long haul.
I would have said something like . I like your bike also, been polite then said I’m speeding up before we get a drafting penality talk to you later and took off. I don’t like to draft and I don’t like to be rude to someone who is enjoying our sport. There are so many levels of compitition in all tri races. I love to watch everyone. I always want people to enjoy the sport as much as I do.
Thanks for sharing, great story. It’s surprising this doesn’t happen more often. What do you think the total cost of all equipment in a typical 2000 person race transition area?
There’s a whole lot of cash just sitting there.
Edit: I replied to wrong freakin’ post. No wonder this makes no sense.
The level of knowledge at local races is pretty amazing these days. People are either clueless to the rules or feel they don’t apply to them. I was gently trying to explain to a wheel sucker on Sunday the fine points of drafting but he didn’t appear to care at all. Folks don’t understand drafting, don’t understand they must fall back for 30 seconds before a re-pass, don’t understand blocking. It’s pretty crazy right now.
Thanks for putting in your 2 cents! I’m very interested in an official’s point of view. I did what you recommended, backing off appropriately and then repassing, but backing off was challenging when I stopped pedaling, and then he did, too. I had to convince him to get going (nicely!).
The official at the race said that I could have gone ahead, since he stopped being the “aggressor”. Is there any rule you know that would substantiate that opinion?
This official was also advocating that during a pass, instead of moving left, then moving up beside someone and passing, to instead move up behind someone and then move left and go around - all assuming that once you were within 3 bike lengths, you complete the pass in 15 seconds. I had always moved left first, to indicate to any official what my intentions were, but he pointed out that I might be starting the 15 second clock earlier if I moved left before I moved into the drafting zone. Opinion?
This official was also advocating that during a pass, instead of moving left, then moving up beside someone and passing, to instead move up behind someone and then move left and go around -
The way the official described is better for a number of reasons: 1) you are not hanging out in the left longer than necessary (could be bad if someone faster than either of you 2 were trying to pass you) 2) you get the benefit of some legal draft before sling shotting forward.
I guess its all a matter of perspective for the official. When the moto is behind the athlete (you), its hard to tell whether you have officially entered the draft zone if you move ahead first. I don’t start my stopwatch until I am absolutely sure you are in the zone, which pretty much requires that I get a little closer with a side perspective. If I am still behind you and you move left first I may not know that you are in the zone, but I could theoretically get you for position or blocking. I’d still give you 15 seconds to clear out of that position and/or pass. So in theory, yes, if the moto is behind you it would probably be best to move forward first and then complete the pass within 15 seconds.
The opinion that you could go ahead (theoretically passing on the right since you were just overtaken) seems sketchy to me. Nowhere in the rules is there any reference to an “aggressor”, its all very cut and dry and related to relative positioning. Rule 5.10g reads: Being Overtaken. When the leading edge of the front wheel of one cyclist passes beyond the front wheel of another cyclist, the second cyclist has been “overtaken” within the meaning of these Rules. A cyclist who has been overtaken bears primary responsibility for avoiding a position foul and must immediately move to the rear and out of the drafting zone of the passing cyclist. The overtaken cyclist shall first move completely out of the drafting zone of the other cyclist before attempting to re-pass the other cyclist. In no case, however, shall a participant move into the path of another participant possessing the right of way.
re:
they must fall back for 30 seconds before a re-pass
Just to nit pick here… I don’t believe there is any rule about 30 seconds. This is just another example of how confused everyone is, even people like you, who are trying to follow directions.
OK, looks pretty cut and dried to me. I try really hard to stay legal, and I’d rather lose some time and be legal. If the passing person really wanted to be a pain, they could, in theory I guess, even start braking when you brake - then you’d both be stopped on the side of the road, his wheel still slightly ahead… but by then I wouldn’t be polite anymore!
It’s good to get a second opinion on the passing/moving left thing, too. The ref went over it before the race, so I tried it in the race and it does work a heck of a lot better - kind of boomerang around the other person, instead of gutting it out to pass. Good information.
Agreed. I think the 30 second thing must have come from the rule that you have 15 seconds to exit the drafting zone to the rear and then, once you re-enter the drafting zone to affect the pass you have 15 seconds to complete it. But you don’t have a cumulative total of 30 seconds to drop back and then pass. You must exit the zone in 15 seconds. If it only takes you 2 seconds to drop out of the zone and then another 5 to re-enter and pass, this is a good pass.
