i’ve done a fair amount of weights over the last 6-7 years. much more than any other fitness related activity. ive always done a lil bit of running and swimming on the side as well…until i began to train for tris last year. i cut back my weights (only once a week during comp season) and upped running, swimming and cycling heaps.
now im just wondering what other people think you should be doing for ironman specific weight training. i have a pretty decent knowledge of weight training on the whole, and as of late have mainly stuck to the basic exercises, recruiting the most muscles.
what are other peoples thoughts on how you should do weights in relation to your position in the season.
im thinking i will do a lil bit of basic rebuild of strength (3x 8-10 reps) which i have lost during comp season (where i didnt focus much on strength at all), with this switching to a strength development phase as i enter the base endurance period. this would involve 3-4x6-8 reps, executed to failure on last set at 7th rep. once i stop making strength gains, swap back to 3x10 reps.
coming into summer (im in sth hemisphere), i’d begin again with a strength development phase for about 6-8 weeks, with this swapping to a maintenance scheme for a further 6 or so weeks after that. after that id be swapping to a muscular endurance phase, with that being 3-4x15-20 reps, at a weight which will produce some lactate. this would continue until the end of the season as the main races draw near.
what do people think about this? should i include more muscular endurance type stuff in my weights?
IMO weights are all good. I like to lift 2-3 x /wk in the off season concentrateing mainly on strength. I found that squats and/or a sled REALLY help my biking. I work in a lot of core exercises and for swimming and some back. About 2 months out from the season I move over to ME workouts as my SBR beging to really pick up. During this time I’m doing 2x/wk total body ME lifts. They take about 45 minutes to do if I don’t dick around too much.
I’ve found that the gains from lifting mainly benefit biking. I’ve seen some benefits to swimming, but I’m convinced that working on swim-specific activities (drills, paddles, etc) is a better use of time. Running IMO is a wash.
Short answer: strength increases from weightlifting won’t transfer over to endurance cycling. Unless you have a physical disability, you’re already strong enough. Work on how long you can maintain your power.
"Strength training doesn’t have any beneficial effects on performance, unless there’s an increase in muscle cross sectional area (hypertrophy). This will cause an increase in peak (sprint) power, and is the reason why 200-m, 500-m TT, and 1-km TT track sprinters are so large.During endurance cycling performance (i.e., any cycling that last more than about 90seconds) the forces limiting performance are not related to strength (which is maximal force), but are more related to metabolic and cardio-respiratory factors (e.g., VO2max, lactate threshold). Strength may be an issue in certain people (e.g., frail old ladies, people with some forms of functional disability, etc). However, in general, most people (and this includes non-trained, age, gender, and mass matched healthy controls) can generate the same power as elite cyclists. The difference being that elite cyclists can maintain the power for far longer periods of time. Therefore, this isn’t a lack of strength but related to not being aerobically fit enough.
Going back to your question, if you’ve not had an increase in muscle cross sectional area, then your gains in weight training have been neuromuscular in nature, and there is no crossover to increased cycling performance. if you’ve had an increase cross sectional area then some sprint training will help improve your sprint ability. however, it should be noted that an increase in cross sectional area will result in a decrease in aerobic ability, as muscle mitochondria and capillary density will decrease. additionally, the increased mass will mean that you have more weight to lug uphill without an increase in sustainable power, which will mean you go slower at a given power uphill."
i asked the same question to a high level strength coach this offseason.
asked her how to go about getting strong for tri.
she told me that to increase endurance, you have to increase strength - ie, get strong muscles.
she’s a very smart lady with lots of str. training experience (20+ years, national lever competitor/coach, etc)…so i’d believe her. Weights are key. (wish i did a lot more this winter), but your program looks good.
use them as an additional resource…when paired with your base building exercises…you’re gonna kick some ass!
I see strength two different ways. There is the sort of muscular strength (ie, “I can bench 220”) which is what most people talk about when they think strength (especially strength coaches). Then there is the sort of strength that say, an excellent marathon runner has. He/she is “strong” and can hold their form even when they are tired, making them a better and faster runner.
If you look at a guy like Paul Tergat, sub-2:05 marathon pr, he probably couldn’t bench 120, but he is an incredibly “strong” runner. He gets this strength through workouts that train him to be a strong runner - things like hill repeats.
I incoporate “strength” workouts into my training, hill repeats, things of that nature, and I never lift weights. I will occasionally do weight-bearing exercises that are probably comparable to lifting weights, but are more injury-prevention targeted than building muscle mass.
I see a lot of triathletes that are really big up top. I’m not sure how building a lot of upper body strength would be of much use in triathlon…it’s gonna slow you down, particulary on the run. Look at Mark Allen, Peter Reid, Tim DeBoom…these guys are nicely toned but not large.
If you’ve spent a lot of time in the weight room, then you know the overall positive effects of weight training. Most would say that weight training will yield direct performance improvements in the tri game at all distances (if done properly, of course). I come from a weight lifting background, and spent the better part of 10 years in the weight room. Had some pretty good results, too. Nothing out of this world, but for a naturally skinny, weak kid, I posted some decent totals.
But my thing is, right now, I don’t have time to weight train. I can barely manage 12 hours a week swimming, biking and running; there’s no more time to throw in weight sessions, unless I want to spend every spare moment training (which I don’t).
So as a former gym rat, I’d say that weight training definitely has some benefits, but I’m too busy to reap those benefits right now.
Check out Dr. Michael Colgan’s book, ‘The new power program.’ He works with all different types of athletes from powerlifters to triathletes. His book focuses on periodization and takes you through different phases during the year. He also has a website that is currently under construction: www.colganpowerprogram.com.
I came to triathlon from a powerlifting/bodybuilding background which I’ve been doing for over 25 years. I still do some powerlifting contests along with tri’s and bike racing. Weights definatley help, especially with injury prevention.
I am a huge proponent of strength training for ironman athletes however I find there are vast variations of what people call “strength training”. I think you have the right idea of changing your routine but you did not specify actual exercises which I think are more important. Build a strong base then go forward with force production. Good luck.
Do you accept or refute the claim that normal people can typically produce the same or greater power on a bicycle as elite triathletes (or even elite cyclists), but only for (much) shorter periods? I’m pretty sure this has been shown to be true (I know I can put out more power than Chris Boardman or Tyler Hamilton). What good, then, is weight training that is intended to increase maximal strength?
I don’t know what to tell you about tri specific weights; weights always helped my swimming and cycling, but not running
btw. The whole argument against doing weights for cycling is a wash inho.
Most good cycling pro’s work out in the weight room a lot over the winter. I have seen good improvements in my sustained power by working out in the weight room (actually measured in a lab setting on a stationary bicycle, before and after a 2 month session of lifting every third day, 3 sets of 15 reps on the leg press ramp, increasing the weight as i saw fit), as well as my sprint.
I would also refer you to the ‘Power program’. The program starts with a phase specifically designed to prevent injury prior to going onto more intense exercises. There is no doubt, and many studies that show how important stength training is. Especially for the core. Having a strong core, including the lower back, is a huge benefit in any sport.
I don’t know what to tell you about tri specific weights; weights always helped my swimming
Tom Wilkins (2000 IM bronze medalist) told me in the pool in January that weights aren’t worth the effort for typical swimmers (except sprinters), FWIF.
Funny, Carmichael has backed off his assertion that Armstrong does weights over the winter, except for core stuff. Over how long an interval was your sustained power measured? Your results seem counter to the research. What else were you doing for exercise during that 2 months?
Studies have been done in which runners in a control group continue normal training, while other runners do a weekly (or twice weekly) weight training session. These studies have shown an increase in performance in the 5% range over a measured course, if I am not mistaken (I do not have time to look it up).
What is typically missed in these studies is that a sport-specific workout of the same length would likely have resulted in an even greater increase. For example, if you took two groups of runners and gave one group a twice weekly 45 minute hill workout, and gave the other group a twice weekly 45 minute weights workout, it seems very likely to me that the group performing the hill workout would gain more speed, strength, etc, than the group performing the non-specific weight workout. Specificity is your friend! Perhaps this study has been done and someone knows of the results.
As this relates to triathlon training, unless you have unlimited amounts of time to spend working out, I think the principle of specificity should apply. If I were nurturing a trinewbie, I’d rather see him/her in the pool or running those extra hours, not in the gym lifting weights.
I have had good luck preventing injuries with some exercises such as those in Maylene’s article. Earlier this year I found myself with a consistently sore left hip. I was running 50-60mpw over the winter and clearly hurt it somehow. I found that laying on my side and raising the sore leg in a scissors motion worked wonders. I did this daily working from 10-20 per workout to over 100. Within a week the hip soreness was gone. These sorts of resistance exercises which may be similar to weights can certainly help prevent injuries, and can be done while watching tv at night. I would suggest these over structured weight sessions. All IMHO, of course!
legs: leg press, squat, or one legged squat, leg extensions, deadlifts or hamstring curls, calf raises
upper body: bench press, flies, lat pulldowns, bent over or seated rows, shoulder press or side raises, triceps exercise, bicep curls (variations)…am thinking of cutting biceps out though.
i found it interesting that some people seem to think weights dont make much difference to swimmers, being an ex swimmer myself. someone mentioned it only benefits sprinters. yes sprinters do often do alot of weights (sometimes almost as much as swimming), but middle distance swimmers do them too. ian thorpe, the best middle distance swimmer the world has ever seen, is built like a brick shit house. he obviously does a fair bit of weights. when he set his world record for 400 free i think he was weighing in at something like 104 kgs…thats as big as a linebacker for all u americans.
also just because u do lots of weights doesnt mean youre gonna get big, that comes with diet. to get big id have to eat absolutely shitloads. people seem to miss the fact that weights is also one of the very best ways to minimise injuries. i haven’t been injured yet…
also i remember reading somewhere that barb lindquist does weights 5 times a week. also if u look at some of the elite ironman athletes you’ll notice that they’re not necessarily skinny as such, and are in some cases quite muscular. i remember reading somewhere that clas bjorling benches something like 150 kgs. thats 330 pounds for u americans, and that aint a small amount!
Do you accept or refute the claim that normal people can typically produce the same or greater power on a bicycle as elite triathletes (or even elite cyclists), but only for (much) shorter periods? I’m pretty sure this has been shown to be true (I know I can put out more power than Chris Boardman or Tyler Hamilton). What good, then, is weight training that is intended to increase maximal strength?
Ken Lehner
I am sure there are plenty of people that could put out more power for a short term than many of the best cyclists. I have not seen any specific studies on it but common sense would say yes.
So, the good in producing max strength would be to build a better base to build muscular endurance. There are studies that show strength training, meaning with weights such as a squat, can enhance endurance in cycling without hypertrophy or increases in VO2 max. This is from neuromuscular responses and not an increase in muscle girth.
In the max strength phase you overload the muscle in a way to try to recruit as many motor units as possible, creating max force. In the power endurance phase you try to decrease the time it takes for that max force to be accomplished. In the muscular endurance phase you try to get that (sub-maximal force) response to happen the maximum amount of time possible. With the addition of weight you can create overload in a way not possible on the bike, a benefit of lifting, however the studies have also shown the exercises need to be sport specific meaning, mimicking the actual movement. This is especially true with swimming which is why cord workouts are very popular.
Now, does that mean the “normal” person you are referring to can spend a bit of time in the weight room and ride like Hamilton? Don’t be silly. That man has genetics that “normal” person does not have. He also has prioritized his time to refine his art. Will the proper weight training help that “normal” person be a better triathlete. Absolutely.
Do you really think that Maylene - or any other strength coach - is going to ‘dis’ weight training, and undercut their own ability to make a living?
What is the evidence that lifting weights can prevent help prevent overuse injuries, anyway? Seems to me that just as many endurance athletes get hurt in the gym as avoid injury by going there in the first place.
Although some may believe otherwise, I would like to think of myself as someone who is honest and does not do things just for the sake of money. If that were true I would have stuck with my former occupation where I was living quite comfortably, but then I would not have the pleasure of chatting with the likes of you
Actually, there is quite a bit of evidence showing proper strength training can prevent overuse injuries and even help in healing them. My first article here on Slowtwitch refers to a few of the studies http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/coachcorn/strength.html
You are right that many athletes, endurance or otherwise, get hurt in the gym. However that is usually because they were doing exercises improperly.
I look at my own experiences. If I’m in the weight room consitently (2x per week, 12-15 reps, 2-3 sets, moderate weight), I do not get injured in my tri-training.
However, I’ve found with my Ironman build up the last month, I haven’t had time to do strength training and I always view it as the first thing I drop if my time is crunched. I wish I had more time, but just don’t.
I’ve never been injured in the weight room - I think if a person gets injured IN the weight room, they are most likely lifting incorrectly.
