Weight Training Reps for Triathletes

Triathlon Forum
1

After a first year or training strictly s/b/r I’m convinced that I need to add strength training into my routine at least once, probably twice a week. From what I can find online, unless the ST experts tell me otherwise, total body circuits seem to be the best route, as opposed to your traditional 5 days/wk gym routine of focusing solely on specific muscle groups each day (bi/tri, chest/back, etc).

That said, how many reps should I be doing? Sets?

Very basic knowledge of strength training tells me that lower rep, higher weight, is the most effective for producing mass and single rep strength. Brute force I suppose. Lower weight and higher reps produces muscular endurance as opposed to a more rapid increase in strength. So which route do you go? Is there a rep window that is best for endurance athletes?

I don’t want the time in the gym to be unproductive. It needs to be the opposite, as we all generally have to be as efficient as possible in our workouts, so any specific advice/experience is much appreciated.

2

s/b/r’ing more will be improve your s/b/r performance more than strength training ever will.

That said, I like to lift weights but do so incredibly inconsistently. I’ve always subscribed to the 5x5, StrongLifts, Rippetoe type plan… but I’ve never managed to lift weights consistently enough to plateau using them.

The plans differ alot, but they have the same core exercises using free weights:

Squats
Bench press
Bent over Rows
Overhead press
Deadlift
Chin ups
Dips

3

best reps are things in the pool like 20 x 100 on an interval that gives you 5-10 sec rest
.

4

I didn’t think there was much debate as to the importance of strength training. I understand that I can get some event specific strength by adjusting my sets, most of which I already do. But it can’t be just a bunch of BS that most collegiate and international swim, bike, run and tri programs are in the gym lifting several times a week. So i’m trying to get to the bottom of what type of workout is most specific in the gym.

5

I didn’t think there was much debate as to the importance of strength training. I understand that I can get some event specific strength by adjusting my sets, most of which I already do. **But it can’t be just a bunch of BS that most collegiate and international swim, bike, run and tri programs are in the gym lifting several times a week. ** So i’m trying to get to the bottom of what type of workout is most specific in the gym.

Can you cite some sources for this?

Pretty much any amateur triathlete will have better results spending that hour doing s/b/r instead of spending it in a weight room. Usually when you hear about pro endurance athletes getting into the gym it is because the time they are spending there is excess training time. IE they simply wouldn’t have used that hour for more cycling (for example) because they are maxed out on their training already.

You can work some “strength type” workouts and gain s/b/r benefits. Stuff like the 20x100 pool workout, or short and very fast track intervals. Squatting isn’t going to help you run or bike faster. It will help you squat more though…

6

collegiate swimmers weight train because they’re already swimming 60k+ a week. Strength training is the last 2% … it’s a question of return on time invested. Far mor ROI on that time spent sbr unless you’re an elite triathlete training full time

7

Can you cite some sources for this?

Well - I was a D1 college athlete and shared the weight room with our swimming and track and cross country team. So I take that direct experience as my knowledge base. Pretty easy to google-fu plenty of examples as well if you want me to provide pictures or something.

My understanding was benefits in the weight room can be gained with regards to core strength and stability. Which is where my rep question started from. In addition, without any real scientific background because I don’t have time to search it at work, I feel like your hear all the time that there is some degree of muscle loss that takes place during strictly endurance work, which can be compensated for through gym workouts.

8

Here is an interesting article that not only shows gains made from weight training, but it also shows that for many well-trained athletes doing high weight, low rep strength training may be better than the traditional low weight, high rep routine. The article references 2 different studies and the links to those studies can be found cited in this article. Interesting stuff there.

9

yes and no.

If you are a time crunched athlete, you are better off spending the limited # of hours swimming, biking and running. Hill reps/big gear work provide excellent strength on the bike and run. Paddles and bands provide the strength you need in the water.

If you’ve got 30 hours a week to train, then it’s probably smart to include some weight room activities…

10

I didn’t think there was much debate as to the importance of strength training. I understand that I can get some event specific strength by adjusting my sets, most of which I already do. But it can’t be just a bunch of BS that most collegiate and international swim, bike, run and tri programs are in the gym lifting several times a week. So i’m trying to get to the bottom of what type of workout is most specific in the gym.

Huddle - Do you ever get in the gym? Do you ever lift weights?
Brownlee - Uh… I do two gym sessions a week but I don’t really lift weights. I can do about 3 pull-ups.
Huddle - Have you ever been on a bench press?
Brownlee - I have, I can hardly lift the bar.
Huddle - OK, so you’re good for 45lbs on the bench.
Babbitt - 45 pounds is good!
Huddle - Not bad…
Babbitt - Absolutely.

http://competitorradio.competitor.com/...2/alistair-brownlee/

11

You’re going to get a mixed bag of answers/opinions because the research is inconclusive, at best, when it comes to endurance athletes and the benefit of strength training.

Your volume of strength training is dependent on your strength training goal. Big difference between improvements for health/general fitness and sport-specific performance. Can it be sport-specific? Yes, but it can be very complex, and often the juice isn’t worth the squeeze for most endurance athletes to sift through the google-sphere of worthless programming.

After a first year or training strictly s/b/r

As others have said, you should focus on the specific adaptations that only increased volume of s/b/r can produce.

If you’re going to lift for the health and fitness benefit, do a lower body push/pull weekly, and an upper body push/pull weekly, with 4-6 sets of 4-6 reps and a total of 4 exercises. This volume should only take @ 15-20 minutes each session at the most including w/u. Any more and you’re potentially wasting even more time from the s/b/r. Don’t get wrapped around the axle with circuits, trendy rep schemes, or name-brand approaches. Moderate weight, couple times weekly, for the benefit of health and fitness. Nothing frantic. Nothing that requires a primal scream heard from the locker room. Just a realistic approach to the limitations and benefits of strength training.

Ex:
Day 1
Barbell rear lunge, 4 x 4
Barbell military press 4 x 4
(Perform a set of each with no rest between exercises, and a 1-2min recovery between series)

Day 2
Romanian DL, 4 x 4
Weighted pull up 4 x 4
(Perform a set of each with no rest between exercises, and a 1-2min recovery between series)
Weight for each set should be a challenge, but don’t go to failure…the fatigue will detract from the s/b/r. And for the love of god, don’t think that you need more protein or to take in a protein drink after a workout like this. Go with water and carry on.

From what I can find online, unless the ST experts tell me otherwise, total body circuits seem to be the best

I’m by no means the expert, but this is not true. Do circuits work? Sure…but they are far from the best. Likewise, what I wrote above is not “the best.” Use strength training for what it is designed for.

12

I feel like each individual is different. Theres all kinds of studies out there and they are useful but none of them create any scientific law regarding improving human performance. You need to try something and see how it works for you. Personally, I have to do low weight and very high reps. Like 1 to 2 sets of 50 to 200 reps of some exercises. I put on muscle very easily because of my college football and sprinter background. So I stick to really light weight. My workouts in the offseason are full body and performed 2-3 times per week. Lasting a total of 30-45 minutes with minimal rest between sets. This is very effective for me. I read articles and use past knowledge for exercises and sometimes I make shit up. I really like to take the offseason to work on weaknesses. For example: I suck at swimming…I only learned to swim about 4-5 years ago when I started Tri. This offseason I really used my weight workouts to do alot of swimming movements with weight. You can use this time to break down movement into simpler sections and really focus on performing the movement properly(form). Its an ideal time to work on form issues because it is shorter and more focused efforts to really hone in that perfect form. The weighted repetitions really help the mind to muscle connection.

You may be the type that needs lower weight and less reps. You wont know until you give it a season and see what happens. I do think its a safe generalization that if you cant push the weight more than 10 times you are probably going too heavy. Thats football and sprinter type weight.

Most important…I think finding some weighted workouts that you enjoy and simulate movements in your sport are what should be the focus. I use alot of medicine balls because they are more fun than pushing dead weight. This often involves another person throwing the ball back and forth. I feel like i am rambling so ill stop…but hope this makes sense.

13

Makes great sense. I guess I should redirect this thread before it gets totally off base. I need/want to introduce weights additionally for the body composition gains. I’m a bigger guy, over weight and have a lot of success with fat loss through the use of strength training. Strength training, in that regard, would help my endurance performance as I start to shed the lbs. I really didn’t want to debate whether or not strength training is effective, as a few have mentioned, I quickly googled and found plenty of contradicting studies for both sides of the argument. My question was at it’s most basic - “If I’m going to spend 20-30 minutes in the gym 2x/week - what should I do with that time in the gym”?

You might ask why. My swim is good. I finish front 1/3 in my races. I’m not going to make improvements that are drastic enough to impact results without investing more time than I have. Swimmers will disagree, but I can’t justify increasing my pool time by several hours to save 2 minutes on a HIM swim. I’d rather cut 30lbs and watch my run times drop by 15 minutes and my watts/kg rise on the bike. Unfortunately, as a result of being overweight, running 5-6 days a week has beat me up over the last year. I’m going to head into a cycling block next, but would like to supplement with gym time since I know it works for me with weight loss. I’ll continue to run as well, likely 1 distance run, 1 recovery run and 1 day of speed work, which will likely change week to week. I might make my long run a higher quality run as well, mile intervals or something, that falls somewhere between steady state training and higher intensity speed work.

So yeah, that’s where I’m at right now.

14

I understand that I can get some event specific strength

Don’t confuse strength with power.

I’m a bigger guy, over weight and have a lot of success with fat loss through the use of strength training. Strength training, in that regard, would help my endurance performance as I start to shed the lbs.

There are more other/maybe more effective/improve endurance performance (aka produce faster times in races) ways to lose the weight/improve body comp than by lifting weights.

I’ll continue to run as well, likely 1 distance run, 1 recovery run and 1 day of speed work

I see your problem. This is not a viable long term solution for you, especially if you’re trying to run 5-6x/wk. You’d be better off just running and not worrying about intervals, long runs. Then on the other 2-3d/wk you’d be better of doing a walk/run type of workout.

The overwhelming majority of people should increase weight not reps to gain strength, increasing reps not weight will often just waste time.

From what you’ve said in this thread, the approach you’re taking is not the path I’d send you down.

15

12 to 15 reps, 3 to 5 sets works great for endurance stuff.

16

What you want to do sounds very similar to what I have been doing for about 2 months now. I use an app called 5x5 Powerlifts and its free unless you want to upgrade to the premium account. My coach suggested it and I really like it. It essentially has you do just basic lifts such as bench, squat, deadlift, rows, but you can supplement with exercises that may help your weaknesses. If swimming is a limiter then looking for swim-specific movements may be a really good idea. A physical therapist could easily identify some weak spots or deficiencies if you want to go that route. I would just be mindful of how much the lifting increasing your fatigue level as to not negatively affect your swim, bike, and run sessions. I have been happy with the adaptations that I can feel through lifting, but my weight is very low and each exercise is only 5 reps each.

17

After a first year or training strictly s/b/r I’m convinced that I need to add strength training into my routine at least once, probably twice a week.

What convinced you?

18

After a first year or training strictly s/b/r I’m convinced that I need to add strength training into my routine at least once, probably twice a week. From what I can find online, unless the ST experts tell me otherwise, total body circuits seem to be the best route, as opposed to your traditional 5 days/wk gym routine of focusing solely on specific muscle groups each day (bi/tri, chest/back, etc).

As a lifetime athlete now in my sixth decade of competition, It is my experience that up until the age of 40, strength training is not that useful for endurance athletes. After age 40 with little maintenance of the muscles thru strength training, recurring injuries start to crop up that I never had in my 20s.

As I get much older, my goal is not to get stronger as much as it is to maintain the strength I have or had. If you stay in this athletic competition business long enough you will have to do something to maintain strength just like you do to maintain aerobic/lactate fitness.

For good guidelines check out Joe Friels “The Triathlete’s Training Bible.” He lays out a strength plan with reps and weights and exercises targeted for triathletes. He also has a good book “Fast after 50” that explains the physiology of aging and what can be done about it.

FWIW, I follow his philosophy on weight training, but as a college power lifter I know enough of what I need to do for my body. Most of the weight training that I do is designed to strengthen weak muscles that have led to training (overuse) injuries (hamstring/shoulders/core).

I personally do no believe I will get any faster by weight training, but: it is easier to maintain/lose weight, avoid injuries and allows me some variety in training rather than just SBR. In my case it is not a waste of time, but a huge time saver by keeping me injury free.

19

Hello cmd111183 and All,

Do you think Dave Scott is lurking? …

Twitter feed today …

"Want to increase your endurance? Make time to lift weights. Read more from @TriMagCan. #Triathlon #AskDave http://ow.ly/UdAsy "

“The most recognized athlete and coach in the sport of triathlon, Dave is a 6x Ironman World Champion and the first inductee into the Ironman Hall of Fame,”

Maybe try lifting weights and see how it works for you.

That said weight training efficacy probably depends on several of the individual’s factors … age … training load … etc.

And even then … it is still a controversial subject … like tubulars vs. clinchers were … and perhaps will be again someday.

.

20

Here is an interesting article that not only shows gains made from weight training, but it also shows that for many well-trained athletes doing high weight, low rep strength training may be better than the traditional low weight, high rep routine. The article references 2 different studies and the links to those studies can be found cited in this article. Interesting stuff there.
Your link above did not work. Can you try it again.
I am always interested in overall strength not just cardio. And not just for now but for the long healthy life I plan on having.