I was talking with a rather fast TT guy and Cat 1 as he brought an interesting point.
He said that since all of the competition is on aero bikes with the latest aero wheels and helmet the only time to gain on people is on the hills.
Everyone is able to keep speed easily on flats so focusing on the hills is the best way to gain time.
Actually sounds reasonable, its easier to catch people on the hills. So get a light tri bike and do hill repeats!
-Adam
PS. For clydesdales I guess practice the downhills
well, having more power than the next guy on the flats still buys you more time.
but having more power to weight than the next guy on the hills buys you even more time, since you aren’t finding an exponentially increasing force (wind resistance)
so yes, light is good, as long as it isn’t less aero.
and getting as powerful and light as possible is good =)
I find that catching people on the hills is relatively easy. Where the real damage is done, is accelerating over the top of the hill while everyone else is winded and content to just coat down the hills. Five or ten powerful pedal strokes will usually get you speeding down the hill faster than most of the other riders.
Bike weight actually has very little impact in a TT. Let’s say the local 40k has a steep climb that takes 10min (that’s a fair ammount of climbing in a 50-60min. race). If you and the bike weigh 150lbs combined and you switch to a bike that is a full 3 pounds lighter, that would save you less than 12 seconds going up the hill (neglecting all wind resistance going up the hill). That’s about 1/5th of what an aero helmet will save you. If you put the top riders in the WT, I doubt their drag differences would predict results within 12sec. over 40k.
Save weight where you can, but never at the cost of aerodynamics!
If you’ve got the aero helmet and the bike is set to the most aero spec…then “less than 12 sec” matters.
Lighter is better. Maybe not better than Aero but…
He said that since all of the competition is on aero bikes with the latest aero wheels and helmet the only time to gain on people is on the hills.
Everyone is able to keep speed easily on flats so focusing on the hills is the best way to gain time.
Of course, everyone is riding in a fully optimized position, too.
I was talking with a rather fast TT guy and Cat 1 as he brought an interesting point.
He said that since all of the competition is on aero bikes with the latest aero wheels and helmet the only time to gain on people is on the hills.
Everyone is able to keep speed easily on flats so focusing on the hills is the best way to gain time.
Actually sounds reasonable, its easier to catch people on the hills. So get a light tri bike and do hill repeats!
-Adam
PS. For clydesdales I guess practice the downhills
Was this guy speaking in regards to TTs or road races?
This was in regard to TT. We had just raced eash other in a duathlon and he noticed the only time he was catching up to others were on the hills. The top 10 men all had TT bikes, aero wheels, aero helmets, aero fits etc. So on the flats he commented how tough it is to catch up, but going up the hills its much easier.
See for me it is the opposite, but then I am 6’3" and can still do a pushup
This was in regard to TT. We had just raced eash other in a duathlon and he noticed the only time he was catching up to others were on the hills. The top 10 men all had TT bikes, aero wheels, aero helmets, aero fits etc. So on the flats he commented how tough it is to catch up, but going up the hills its much easier.
To me it seems to say more about that particular rider’s strengths than the aero gear and/or weight.
For instance, his bike could be 2lbs lighter, but his body is likely 10-15lbs lighter. So the premise that Aero = riders of differing abilities riding the same speed on the flats and Light bike = Gain significant ground on the climbs seems unfounded.
But some of the expense in shaving weight is completely not cost beneficial.
Take for example a 150lb rider with a 17lb bike who puts out 250W. If he were to spend $$ to get his bike down to 14lbs, that is the equivalent, (equalizing p/w ratios) of 4.57W, which is not inconsequential but certainly not going to catch a ton of people up the mountain. I think a better rule of thumb is all other things equal, bike weight matters, which would mean going for quick wins (don’t need that lead crankset or seatpost) and avoiding added bulk (saddle bag contents, holiday dinners, etc) while not sacrificing aero or ability to generate power.
how many watts will I be saving going from a round tube tiagra bike that is 24lbs to a 19lbs aero frame?
But some of the expense in shaving weight is completely not cost beneficial.
Take for example a 150lb rider with a 17lb bike who puts out 250W. If he were to spend $$ to get his bike down to 14lbs, that is the equivalent, (equalizing p/w ratios) of 4.57W, which is not inconsequential but certainly not going to catch a ton of people up the mountain. I think a better rule of thumb is all other things equal, bike weight matters, which would mean going for quick wins (don’t need that lead crankset or seatpost) and avoiding added bulk (saddle bag contents, holiday dinners, etc) while not sacrificing aero or ability to generate power.
An observation from the road race TT this weekend, and this is speaking of a TT, not the bike portion of a tri or a du: Our TT course was a short rolling 6.7 mile route with two 90 degree turns and one nice curve. Our tri training will help us in a TT, but its still apples and oranges to riding a course as fast as you can without regard to efficiency(at least on this course since it was less than 7 miles). Staying aero over a roller might be more efficient if you are going to be doing them for 112 miles, but you are going to be faster by getting up and hammering and then getting back down. Yes, you used more energy, but you will be done in 15 minutes. I made the mistake of trying to stay too aero for too long over the first set of hills, but then I figured it out and it worked out better.
If you are training for tris, our riding carries over for doing long pulls at the front of the pack, but we don’t train to the same degree a roady does for sprinting over a hill, sprint finishes, or just an all out TT. I have so much more respect for roadies after that race. However, I was still amazed how poorly some of them handled the TT and/or how they just blew it off. Maybe they were completely saving themselves for the next day, but if you show up to the line with aero wheels, aero helmets, booties, bars, a full kit, I think you can at least hammer for 7 miles.
**how many watts will I be saving going from a round tube tiagra bike that is 24lbs to a 19lbs aero frame? **
Assuming you are 150lbs, 7.40W though the point i was trying to make is that of course you would switch from a 24lb round to a 19lb aero since its a win-win, but I would also suggest that a 19lb un-aero setup is inferior to a 24lb fully-aero setup
**how many watts will I be saving going from a round tube tiagra bike that is 24lbs to a 19lbs aero frame? **
Assuming you are 150lbs, 7.40W though the point i was trying to make is that of course you would switch from a 24lb round to a 19lb aero since its a win-win, but I would also suggest that a 19lb un-aero setup is inferior to a 24lb fully-aero setup