I think (as a non hookless user/purchaser) to be far that the one argument is cost. And whilst people can say but the savings haven’t been passed on to consumers, then the reality is more like that the full increases in wheel manufacturing costs haven’t been passed on as a result of some production cost savings from hookless.
The potential for aero/ rolling resistance hasn’t been proven yet. At best it’s in the margin of error so far, but then how many years of incremental improvements has it taken to get to where we are now with frames, helmets, wheels and waterbottles……
I do feel a bit bad for @E_DUB as he’s spent a lot of money and time in trying to get some data to help the discussion. The issue is as alluded to, the reason no-one else has done this is because pretty much every poster here has a different definition for how to make the test ‘valid’ - most of which are mutually exclusive.
The last bit is that the whole issue kinda pivots about 75kg. Less than that it potentially is a none issue either way. Over that, and its a potentially significant thing.
For me, my guess is that despite a comment over the last couple of months, this really is going to go away for road bikes. The real challenge is that may limit the choices a bit as manufacturers are going to perhaps focus on (hookless) gravel. The massive win for manufacturers from hookless would have been to share wheels road and gravel. And some may just focus on what they see is the growing market of gravel over the ‘dying’ road market. But I think there’s still the market for ‘race’ ie deep hooked rims for TT, Tri and sprinting.
I think what we’re seeing (reference E_DUB’s tire purchase screenshot) is that the wheel manufacturers save a few pennies and pass responsibility for the safety margin on to the tire manufacturers. The tire makers, then raise the cost to consumers.
I think the cost saving thing is a red herring. Look at the three brands who are the poster children of hookless - zipp, enve, cadex. They are generally viewed as expensive brands. Other brands make similar spec wheels which cost way less.
If my wheel budget was 2000 bucks, I wouldn’t be bothered by a set costing 1700 vs 2000. If you’re paying that kind of money for wheels, you don’t need the cost savings that hookless brings, nor may you care. My opinion.
I just googled, a set of zipp 808 wheels MSRP is 2100 to 2400. Looks like the cost savings is going well…NOT
My point was that the cost now would possibly have been 2300-2600 if hooked. Or may have been 2,105 -2,405. Or perhaps they did increase margin and that means they have more R&D so in 3 years can get hookless that work up to 90psi…. Or they increased margin, so the employees and shareholders got pay rises so they can afford to buy bike tyres now they cost more than car tyres.
Great points.
Didn’t even think about that, but it makes sense.
Seems like for the buyer and rider, the tiny, tiny reduction in rim manufacturing cost is going to be far exceeded by the increase in tire manufacturing cost.