I’m trying to figure out if there’s a good estimation of a watts per kilogram for a Kona Qualifier’s FTP. 4.0 seems a little high. Any opinions? Most specifically for around 40 y.o. males, but across the board is good, too.
Depends on your total drag. Shitty aero position and/or tires = need more power compared to someone optimized. FWIW, I’m currently at 3.9 W/kg (154lbs) with 8 weeks of build left. I’ll let you know how it turns out but I’m hopefully in the hunt for KQ. I’ve done wind tunnel time and run good equipment so I’m not overcoming terrible drag AFAIK.
I think it depends on the course. A flat course w/kg don’t mean much but being aero and FTP matter. A hilly IM, w/kg matter more. So if you on the heavier side think Florida/Arizona/Maryland/Cozumel/Texas and if you are light then think LP,MT,LT.
You probably already know this, but : Watts/ Kilo comes in difference flavors. Having never done a ride over 40 miles in my life, I am extremely unlikely to KQ despite my ~4.1 Watts / Kilo combined with sub 53:00 swim and right around 3:00 (open) marathon.
I assumed his question implied “for an IM athlete”.
For most IM courses, p/CdA is a more valuable metric than w/kg. I’ve seen 3.3w/kg get outridden by 2.8w/kg, same course, same race not the same speed on the bike.
The estimate that I heard was borderline KQ’ers are around 4.25w/kg.
At 4.0 w/kg, I’m 1 for 2 in M35-39.
I don’t think w/kg is a highly useful metric in IM. Fwiw I am 4.4 w/kg but don’t really think I have much if a shot at KQ in a few weeks at IMMT. Ride a Shiv with 808s and a good helmet with a reasonable position. Lots of other factors go into KQ
You’re definitely extremely unlikely to KQ anytime in the next 2 weeks… but if you put in a few 100 mile rides in the next 2 months with some runs afterwards, I’d bet a bunch that you’d be able to qualify in a shortish (2-3 months?) amount of time.
depends how well you swim and run. on my very best IM days, i can ride almost 2.5 W/kg. But I am more often around 2.3 or 2.4. And my position is not particularly aero. I have qualified once and also gotten three roll-downs. just entered the 60-64 ranks this year. I can usually swim and run pretty well compared to the other guys my age-group.
it is not a bike race 
I am 43 and at 4.35 but i agree with other comments, more relevant for a hillier course
cheers
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thanks for the vote of confidence, truly, but something I suspect but don’t know but suspect: if I do 5 hour rides will my FTP will go down in the short run possibly even significantly?
Depends on you aeroness and the course. Harder bike courses favor cyclists or at least allow them to make up for sub standard runs. So Whistler, CdA, IMWI, IMLP, IMLT. These are all 30-40 minute longer rides than flat courses. That 30-40 minutse more to gain a couple more minutes on a stronger runner.
Myself, I’m right at 4 w/kg, but plan to ride a little conservative in my first IM as the run leg is a huge unknown and I want to give myself the best change to NOT blow up. If Bestbikesplit.com is accurate as usual and I execute really, really well and race to my potential, I think I’ll KQ with around 20-25 minutes to spare and have a shot at winning the AG depending on who shows up and how well they race that day. But anything can happen in racing. That’s why we race and don’t use lame ass qualifying times like runners.
I’d say if I only had an FTP of 3.5 w/kg I could still ride fast enough to KQ I think. Maybe 3.4 with a top of the line bike and wheels.
Im my experience, when you do a bunch of long rides your FTP actually creeps up a bit over time. Not as efficiently as say doing a bunch of 20 min at FTP repeats or more 5 or 8 minute repeats at 125% or 115% of FTP. More importantly, riding a lot of long rides will allow you to access a higher % of your FTP comfortably, which is important if you want to run a marathon after the 112 miles.
For example: my FTP a month ago was 265 watts and is 270 watts right now. Over the last month I have done 4 long rides (one was 90 and the other 3 over 100 miles:
the oldest was at 162 watts or about 61% of 265 watts
Next was 165 watts or about 62%
Last week was 174 watts or about 64% of my higher FTP of 270
Yesterday was 185 watts or about 69% of 270
I’m building for Kona and basically following the same plan I used in 2010 and 2012 for Kona. I have 72 days until the race and expect to do 7-8 more long rides. By the time Oct 11th roles around I would expect my FTP to be around 280 watts and I would also expect to have 2-3 rides where I was comfortable at 195-200 watts (70-72%), which is what I would plan to target for Kona.
I weigh about 77 kilograms right now so my power to rate ratio is 3.5. By October, I expect to race at 163 pounds and would have a P/W ratio of 3.8. I’m 57. In 2010, when I was 53 I had a P/W ratio of 4.0, which is the highest I’ve ever measured.
BTW–my ride yesterday was with a local friend, Brian Duffy, who has an FTP of 325 watts and he weighs 65 kilos so his FTP W/P ratio is 5.0 and he AKLWAYS KQs. (Of course it helps that he can swim 54 minutes and he ran 2:59 at Kona) so for the most part he’s competing in a different sport than I am…
The estimate that I heard was borderline KQ’ers are around 4.25w/kg.
That’s only if you have a shitty aero position and/or can’t run sub 3:30. I was probably only around 3.7-3.8 when I qualified in 2012 but I also had one of the faster runs of the day.
I needed north of 4 to KQ at age 40, but that’s also to make up for a crap swim too. (hey, I’m a poet and I did not know that.)
Hilly course, the w/kg matters more. Flat course, w/CdA matters more.
And as has been said, you can get away w/ lower watts/whatever, if you are VERY aero, or a very good swimmer and/or runner.
It’s just one part of the equation. But - more is MO BETTA when it comes to w/kg.
You are 2 numbers: W/kg and W/m^2 . The course selects the winner according to a specific proportion of these.
I missed out on a KQ at IMMT by 6 seconds last year and had a w/kg of 4.4. Guess I need an extra watt or two for my next attempt.
I don’t think there’s a definitive # out there for the bike. It’s a triathlon with a long bike in the middle. That bike is important, and lots of long rides are important, but if you can’t put together a solid run afterwards it’s moot point - I learned that last summer.