I think Cervelo makes nice bikes…do I think they make “great” bikes? No…I dont think so.
This lawsuit is IGNORANT and shows a lack of honor by the management at Cervelo. If they can not handle competition - and the competition thinking that their product is superior (or inferior)…they need to grow up. I hear people all the time in shops say “Brand X Sucks” or “Brand Y Sucks”…deal with it. I hear “Campy Sucks”, I think “Shimano Sucks”. Hell, I think France sucks! You know what…that is life. We will not all have the same “best bike”, we will never agree on the perfect ride - as we shouldnt.
If I were you, I would tell Cervelo to take a flying leap. If I was did get a subpeona I would not help them a bit. That is typical legal crap that they are babies about…and seemed to want to drag you, as the consumer into.
Ignorant.
(I am sure I will get blasted for not swinging from the collective Cervelo sack…but I am not going to swing based on their support of this site, CSC or any other thing they do)
Stating opinion and mistating facts are two different things. So to me the claim of “Poor ride quality” is an opinion while the claimed weights, tube characteristics, and safety concerns can be concretely proved or disproved. If I produced high performance cars and a competitor was publishing that my cars did 0-60 in 8.4 seconds when it’s actually 4.2, you can bet I’d be pissed. Now whether I’d sue over it??? I don’t think so.
I could also imagine that other companies could get pretty pissed at some of the things Cervelo posts on its Q&A page. For example, they site the "gimmicky features for *aerodynamics" ***of the Airborne Spectre and that the nose-cone of the bike “…were absolutely terrible for aerodynamics. The sharp front edge is pretty much the worst shape you can have for aerodynamics.” Now, to a certain extent, I guess this could be proven in a tunnel. But I know we also get frustrated with how much conflicting data gets generated from wind tunnel testing. I guess I just think it’s a fine line they’re walking.
I really like Cervelo and have been happy to see them doing so well. I guess I’m disappointed that this suit exists. But like all things, I’m sure there’s way more to this story than what we’re being exposed to.
But like all things, I’m sure there’s way more to this story than what we’re being exposed to. Their is probably much truth to this. jmg1848 in my opinion I would find another avenue to vent your disapproval than this forum. I would not pour salt on an open wound for everyone to read. Just my opinion and as the saying goes “opinions or like A-holes everyone has one”.
You guys are overreacting to all of this. This is just business. Cervelo thinks Guru is trash talking and this is the way civilized people fire a shot across the bow. Whether they have trashed talked or not, Guru will now think twice about doing it in the future.
Just out of curiousity how are they using your information inappropriately? Did they misquote you? Did they say you said something that you didn’t? Maybe I’m not following it correctly but from looking at the complaint that someone else posted on this forum it appears that Cervelo somehow got ahold of email correspondence between you and Guru and is basing their action on the things Guru said to you about Cervelo? Or is there a missing piece where you then forwarded the Guru comments to Cervelo and Cervelo got them that way?
In any event, neither the Guru website or the Cervelo website post any kind of privacy policy so what was your expectation? I’m not trying to be argumentative so much as trying to understand why you’re so pissed off.
It doesn’t seem unreasonable to me for Cervelo to go after any other Company who mispresents facts about its products. If Guru really is misstating the facts then there is unfair competition going on. This happens every day of the week in the IP context where people litigate the fuck out of their competition to protect their brand, their trademarks, etc. It’s an ordinary cost of doing business. As for Gerard, I don’t know him from Adam but I suspect that it’s Cervelo’s general counsel that is telling him what he can and cannot say and that his “coldness” maybe a result of counsel telling him not to spout off on an open forum when they are in the middle of litigation.
If Gerard had said “Hey Joe, send me that email so I can use it as evidence to pound Gug into oblivion” I would have held back.<<
Dude, ever heard of Microsoft?
You don’t have to be a corporate giant, or under any suspicion to have your email requested as part of legal discovery in a lawsuit or inquiry. Thanks to Federal Rules of Civil Procedure 26(a)(1) and many similar state rulings, corporate email is recognized as a discoverable form of electronic information, which must be produced on demand if requested.
True that you did not have to offer up the email unless the court demanded it of you (subpoena type situation), and that you’ll probably be more wary in the future. But I also feel for Cervelo & Gerard. Libel and slander are nasty albeit non-violent crimes. And if you have ever been a victim of these crimes, you know how devastating it can be. With the Internet and free-flow of information and opinions, it can be tricky to know what is “safe” and what might be libelous. A private email is not considered free speech/public opinion. It is akin to a private telephone conversation. If while talking on the phone to someone (A) who made a slanderous comment about another (B), you would not have to disclose that information unless asked by the courts. But that aside, if you tell B, you can bet they will do something about it, and likely involve you - even if you requested no involvement.
I faced slander at a prior place of employment. Someone high-up at the “company” told me of the slanderous statements made by another high-ranking associate. I was lucky in that my associate was willing to document everything he heard, and was more than happy to share it with my lawyer. But if had only told me verbally of the slander, I could have had my lawyer involve him as well, to get an affadavit or other such statement.
My question would actually be why did someone at Guru actually email this info to you? And comment would be that since you offered the email freely to Cervelo, you really should not have any complaints about their use of the information contained therein. Once you forward that email you really have little to fall back on. If you were to email any comment directly to a company, say you were extolling the amazing virtues of their products, they can use your statements 9 times out of 10 without getting prior permission - every piece of info you share with them, unless you explicitly state otherwise, they are now free to use as they deem fit (within some basic constraints).
I understand you wish you had been consulted prior to the action on Gerard’s part. And perhaps as a result of your comments, Cervelo may be more inclusive in their use of information. But I think you should also respect Cervelo’s decision to use that information you shared freely, as they deem appropriate.
PS: I am Canadian, and the incident to which I refer happened in Canada.
As someone who keeps the Florida Bar in business, I still suggest you just calm down. This is not a real lawsuit. This is a pretend lawsuit. It is just a measuring contest. It will never see a court room. Both sides will spend a few bucks on lawyers, both sides will quickly tire of writing checks. Guru will deny doing anything wrong, and promise not to do it again. Cervelo will declare vindication. Guru will declare exhonoration. Both sides will declare victory. Both sets of lawyers will get richer and both sets of clients will get poorer. That is the way it is supposed to be. Yawn.
You are just a vehicle. Don’t let them occupy any more of your gray matter. You have much more valuable uses for it than that. The side that dedicates the most brain power loses.
Aj - you certainly are correct, however Cervelo decided on their own that they wanted to sue for a total of $350,000.00 (Canadian - that is like $87.00 US right?) - Cervelo decided it was worth their money to hire legal representation. Cervelo is the one that got all mad. What to me is the funniest is that the city I live in - there are no Cervelo dealers (or Guru for that matter) - the shops here will ALL tell you that Cervelo are heavy Asian made junk…when do they get their legal papers with a dollar figure on them?
Whether you agree with what Cervelo or Guru are doing, this is a good post because it does remind people that your e-mail does not necessarily carry any expectation of privacy. Ethically, I would expect a company that was going to use my name in a lawsuit to let me know ahead of time, but I don’t know that they are legally bound to do so. Ethically, I would hope that a major bike company wouldn’t write things about their competitiors products that couldn’t be backed up in testing, but we all know how that works too.
Now it’s time to decide whether this incident and the pending lawsuit affect your decision to use the bikes in question. In my experience, if somone thinks it’ll make them go faster, they’d ride a magic turd built by Satan himself.
I know that this is the way it “is” but is not this the “sad” truth. I do not expect a reply…but gosh…I wish business and litigation did not have to evolve this way…Maybe that is why I love IM Black and white…Train hard get the results…OH The simpler life…
A.J.,
This is my most favorite topic. Weight. How many people out there on this forum that are gram freaks have less than 10% body fat? Why spend a tons of cash to save a few ounces when you can get rid of the 15lb. spare tire around your gut. So what if Cervelo’s are heavy asian junk and Guru’s are Canadian Clunkers. Quit putting so much cake in your cake hole, ride your bike don’t spend money on it and remember it ain’t the arrow, it’s the indian.
Cakehole wide open here… and 9.5% body fat, even at 53 years of age!
Here’s the deal gang. If God had wanted you to eat less than a pint of ice cream at a time, he’d have put it in smaller containers. You don’t need instructions or a dishwasher: Open the Ben & Jerry’s Half Baked, insert spoon…
Let’s deal with equations. At my weight (168) a 10K is good for a six pack of REAL beer (screw that limp-wristed light crap). A 40K bike leg is good for nearly double that, and a 1500m swim will definitely offset the four creme filled donuts I ate waiting for the race to start.
I keep thinking I could squeeze down to 165, but then J&A offers all-you-can-eat Chipotle Burritos for free right after the race…
Maybe I’ll lose the three pounds on my next Ironman, or my NY eve workout (10K swim, 100 mile bike, 10 mile run). There are no aid stations nor any free burritos afterward.
This whole lawsuit thing is good for me. See, I’m thinking of buying a new road bike, and I’m having a terribly tough time deciding who to give my money to. So many awesome bikes on the market these days… it’s getting really tough to pick one. Fortunately Cervelo just made it a bit easier to decide by taking one choice out of the mix. There’s not the slightest chance in hell Cervelo’s bank account will be padded by even a single one of my dollars.
This “sue crazy” situation our country is in so far out of control. Usually it’s stupid consumers trying to get something for nothing, but apparently companies aren’t above this either.
And for those who think this isn’t a big deal because it won’t ever make it to court, remember this: you’re still the ones paying for this… Cervelo’s customers, I mean. Next time you buy one of their bikes, ask yourself how much of the inflated price tag has to do with R&D, material costs, workmanship, sponsorship, and lawsuit investment. Sorry Cervelo, I’m not going to help pay for your games. Put every penny into making the best product you can, and leave the lawsuits for McDonalds customers who can’t hold their coffee.
Okay, if I was a fat ass leviathon loach with 110% body fat and a body mass so large that the mere act of conciousness causes me to sweat…I could sue McDonalds for making me fat…
SO…can I sue the bike companies for Road Rash and cramps? I mean, had they not made the bike I would not have crashed the bike and would not have been hurt! I see dollar signs! CHA CHING!!!
