Vigilatism in races

Triathlon Forum
1

Curious, do you people suggesting methods of self-policing of poor swim manners and bike leg drafting really do the things that you suggest or are you simply letting off a little e-steam?

I can see it if you’re just venting with “good ways to get 'em,” like when i see somebody tearing down my narrow residential street and want to shoot out their tires … i would never do it, but it makes me feel better talking about all the bad things i’d do to them given a consequence-free situation.

honestly, it’s attitudes like you all are displaying that makes me not want to progress to longer distances or move towards the front of the pack,(where people are more “serious”). i can only imagine busting my ass in the swim and having somebody knock me in the face or tear off my goggles b/c i touched their ankle too many times … or hammering on the bike so that i can get spat on or run off the road if i’m perceived as sucking wheel (even if its just that i can’t quite get up the juice to pass in a “fast enough” time).

now i know that there are rules and i know about good form while racing, but when you’re on the course sometimes you make transgressions that are unintentional … and who isto determine whether something is intentional cheating or just “racing to the best of your ability?” i can think of nothing worse than to come out of the water with cracked ribs (i’ve heard it happens), or a broken collar bone from a crash, just because some judge, jury and executioner decides to get their pound of flesh due to some perceived injustice.

ruin my race and or cause me an injury b/c you feel i’ve inconvenienced you? who would really be the asshole then?

3

thanks man … hello, my name is TomAnnapolis and i’ve been the victim of …

well, nothing’s ever happened to me personally, but i’ve got plans to get faster and go longer and i don’t want to have to take a fist to the skull or road rash because of it. i’d never do it to someone else and i don’t accept as valid that it could be done to me.

and honestly, i would be waiting for the person after the race with a TIRE IRON AND I’D … ok, just joining in on the whole “badass” thing …

5

Forearms and shins, got it … when do you throw the frame pump in the spokes?

6

well some of us learn tricks of the trade in other blood sports - for example waterpolo is great preparation for the mass open water swims - classic trick - while drafting is part of the swim and all well and good I absolutely HATE when someone continiously touches my toes - once or twice every now and then is ok but continiously IRRITATES me intensly - so the waterpolo trick is to come to a dead stop - no doubt the person on your feet will stop and look up as well so as they do extend legs rapidly into torso - won’t be touching your feet again in a hurry - there are obviously more nasty versions of this - and no I haven’t used this in a race … yet!!!

7

Preferably on a steep, fast descent!!! (Just jokin’)

8

Gatoraid in the eye’s sure stings.

9

You sound like a real winner and will no doubt take the time to explain to the little girl that her daddy drown because he was touching your toes too much so you used your “trick of the trade” to kick him unconscious…stupid ass.

10

Very well said. I agree 100%.

11

I used to race motocross and we used to have a thing called a “brake check.”

If some dude was doggin ya into a turn you just hit your brakes hard, he hits your rear and hopefully falls and then you get on the gas and exit the turn.

Probably a little dicy to try on a bicycle:)

12

My first triathlon, mid-June, 1984, temperature by the run was in the mid 80’s, humidity at least that or higher. I finish the 1000 yd swim okay, I started in shin deep water and watched the main group go off first, in amazement. Got through the 22 mile hilly bike on my reconstructed Ross 10 speed (36-40 lbs and still with a collection of sand from Newport Beach). Start on the 6 mile run. Pleased with myself during the first mile as even though my strides are only a foot and a half, I am not puking along side the narrow road walled with steamy vegetation and totally lacking breathable air, as are at least six other guys. About a mile of this out and back, the course turns onto a gravel/dirt road/trail, slightly uphill (think typical driveway). I (a former 3:11 marathoner in the heat of SoCal) am chugging up this “grade” trying to find footing on the gravel, strides are now reduced to six inches, vision focused on individual pieces of gravel. In the opposite direction comes the race leader, Tim S., all 6’2” of him, rapidly gobbling up territory. Bam! We collide as he also wants the center lane of the track. I see this about 1.5 seconds before it happens, but with my stride, pace and maneuverability, I am merely a spectator. I keep my feet and spin off (probably with some help of Tim). I keep running and stay to the right. Finish the race and am generally quite pleased with myself.

Afterwards, Tim S. comes up to me explains himself and apologizes (to an appropriate point). “People in the lead have the right of way, if you are behind you have to get out of the way.” (I didn’t get the chance to explain to him I didn’t have the means at that point to do so.) “If you were to be passed in the swim, it is completely legit to expect someone to go over the top of you, in which case the recommended action is to curl up in a ball to minimize damage.” (Moral – seed yourself appropriately.)

His actions weren’t malicious, but Damn it Jim, he was in a race. He had recently completed the Ironman (yes, Kona) in 11 hours, a very respectful time in those days. I understood it, learned it and remembered it. And 60+ races later (hit a dead spot in the 90’s – blame it on Utah), I still follow it.

My biggest peeve, the person who angles into me on the swim at a 45 degree angle, not the first time, not the second time, but the third time in two minutes. At this point, I loose my cool, stop swimming, turn to the guy, place two hands on his torso, and shove him laterally three feet. I know it costs me time, but this guy (about once every 6-8 races) is totally clueless on direction. For God’s sakes, practice in a lane to even out your stroke!

13

I disagree, it is extremely rude to constant hit someones feet while drafting off them… once in a while is ok, but you have to remember, you are doing all the work in this relationship, and they are doing is hitting you… (ungrateful S.O.B’s). If someone takes it upon themselves to draft off you, the least they could do is avoid hitting your feet repeatly… as mentioned above, once in awhile is ok, thats accidental… but repeatedly… not so much in my opinion.
my solution is to give one or two hard kicks to let them know its really annoying… if that persists… I just whip kick twice… hard…

David

14

you’re the kind of jackass i’m talking about.

how do you even know that you’d be kicking the person that’s tapping you. christ, i can’t stand this rambo badass bullshit.

  1. it’s only a race

  2. it’s incidental contact

  3. you’re a dick.

15

This little move that zulu described will not knock someone out. It is analogous to using them as a wall to get started again. You stop, they run into you, stop as well and you use them to get you moving again. Properly executed by an experienced player no one get’s hurt. Trust me in waterpolo there are much nastier and more violent things that could be done to this person. I am sure Zulu and a number of us ex-waterpolo players can all throw a punch without breaking our stroke, lead with our elbows and aim a kick to catch someone in the throat if need be. All without anyone seeing anything.

That said. I think it would be great for all triathletes to play waterpolo (with people that can play) once a month instead of a sprint masters workout. A one-hour game is as much work as a one-hour hard swim workout and you learn a lot about swimming in a crwd and being aware of where u r in the water.

16

maybe your having a problem defining how much contact we’re talking… i’m defining accidental as my foot being touched more than once every 30 sec… thats alot… even twice a min is being pretty generous… if someone is touching your foot more than that, why are they drafting off you? They are obvously faster than you.
David

17

I agree again! One time long ago I was in an open water swim (tri). I was over trained, tired, a poor swimmer, My gogles fogged to the max, For some reason I got paniced. I could not see , tried everything, and got turned around. I was going the wrong way. If someone had pushed me under I would have drowned. I know other people who have just fell apart in the water. So should we try to kill them?

18

Sorry ! Your wrong!

19

It’s ok to do that BUT if it’s my wife or daughter you kick,hit etc. One of us will be taking a good butt whipin later!

20

how so?
david

21

We can’t hurt people who may be sick, handicapped, new, young, what-ever.

22

first i appologize for calling names - i have no desire or intention to flame on.

second, there is never an appropriate time to kick somebody in the face intentionally. if you do it’s assault, period.

look, i get irritated by a lot of things that people do that are inconsiderate of others. and if you’re getting tapped on the ankle a lot i consider kicking harder to be an acceptable means of pointing it out. however, when your actions move from notifying the offender that enough is enough to making a purposeful attempt to cause pain, well that’s when i call bullshit.

maybe there’s some point where a confrontation is called for, and should i ever do an IM i am certain i don’t want someone on my feet for 2+ miles … but i still don’t think it’s acceptable to strike out at another person and risk injuring them (or yourself), and possibly ruin six months of preparation for somebody else b/c they’re irritating you!