I don’t think hes going to Vegas unless he feels he’s going to win. Unless, he just gets paid some sort of appearance fee but then again, we arent talking about prize money.
I should note that I’m certainly not arguing that the prize purse is adequate. Far from it. I’m simply saying that I don’t think the lack of a bigger prize purse was the main reason for keeping other athletes from Vegas.
Are you claiming that the most talented 70.3 athletes weren’t in Vegas? Do you feel that someone wasn’t there that could have taken down any of the top 3 in Vegas?
The most talented half-iron distance athletes were in Beijing.
Are you claiming that the most talented 70.3 athletes weren’t in Vegas? Do you feel that someone wasn’t there that could have taken down any of the top 3 in Vegas?
The most talented half-iron distance athletes were in Beijing.
The most talented half-iron distance athletes, who dont race half iron distance races, were in Beijing.
Are you claiming that the most talented 70.3 athletes weren’t in Vegas? Do you feel that someone wasn’t there that could have taken down any of the top 3 in Vegas?
The most talented half-iron distance athletes were in Beijing.
The most talented half-iron distance athletes, who dont race half iron distance races, were in Beijing.
A Brownlee won $80k in Beijing (not including bonuses), Crowie won $16k. The ITU crowd would be so much fast (and talented at 70.3 distance) but it isn’t worth their time. It is not to say that those who competed in Vegas are not really fast, it is just the ITU crowd is so much faster. 70.3 seems to be where former ITU go in their twilight years. Think of it as the seniors tour in golf. They are still very very good, just not the prime of the sport.
Well just because you haven’t heard of some Euros doesn’t mean they are slow.
Plus a few other missing names who finished top10 last year: Matt Reed, Richie Cunningham, Tim O’Donnell, Igor Amorelli, Daniel Fontana.
Plus former champion Terenzo Bozzone. What about other Americans who’ve won Ironman or 70.3 races this year - Ben Hoffman, Jordan Rapp or TJ Tollakson.
That’s without considering any of the ITU athletes who might cross over at the 70.3 level since it’s a great meeting point for Long vs. Short athletes.
Arguably Crowie and Potts were really the only BIG name athletes to show up.
Well just because you haven’t heard of some Euros doesn’t mean they are slow.
Plus a few other missing names who finished top10 last year: Matt Reed, Richie Cunningham, Tim O’Donnell, Igor Amorelli, Daniel Fontana.
Plus former champion Terenzo Bozzone. What about other Americans who’ve won Ironman or 70.3 races this year - Ben Hoffman, Jordan Rapp or TJ Tollakson.
That’s without considering any of the ITU athletes who might cross over at the 70.3 level since it’s a great meeting point for Long vs. Short athletes.
Arguably Crowie and Potts were really the only BIG name athletes to show up.
I’m not the one who said anything about unknown Euros or about them being slow. Jackmott brought these unknowns up.
And why werent they there? A majority of them because of Kona prep. And we’re discussing prize purses offered by the WTC. Why offer more money when you’ve got top talent showing up still and the ones who arent because they’re prepping for their other “WC” race?
Terenzo is hurt.
ITU athletes have this little thing called the Olympics coming up which I’ve already mentioned.
Again, since this seems to be hard to grasp, all I’m saying is that the size of the prize purse isn’t what kept* most of those *not present, away from Vegas. I’m not arguing that top talent wasn’t missing (although I think the mens field was still quite deep) but simply that the ones that were missing were not present for reasons other than prize purse money.
Don’t forget Joe Gambles. Might not quite be in the “Crowie” caliber, but Joe was well in the running last year, as he was this year.
Are you claiming that the most talented 70.3 athletes weren’t in Vegas? Do you feel that someone wasn’t there that could have taken down any of the top 3 in Vegas?
The most talented half-iron distance athletes were in Beijing.
The most talented half-iron distance athletes, who dont race half iron distance races, were in Beijing.
A Brownlee won $80k in Beijing (not including bonuses), Crowie won $16k. The ITU crowd would be so much fast (and talented at 70.3 distance) but it isn’t worth their time. It is not to say that those who competed in Vegas are not really fast, it is just the ITU crowd is so much faster. 70.3 seems to be where former ITU go in their twilight years. Think of it as the seniors tour in golf. They are still very very good, just not the prime of the sport.
I think it depends on the course and how many guys you get to ride with on the bike. Many athletes like Alexander can do all 3 well, which he proved at cour d’lane riding very well solo and still running fast…but Michael Weiss never would make it in ITU and he is 4th in the world at 70.3…same with Lieto, 2nd at vegas and never would do well at ITU. I don’t think many guys in Beijing could come beat either of those guys in a one on one race(I realize race dynamics are never that way, but just saying on pure talent levels). Having been in races where you have a pack dynamic, and some races where you don’t, I can clearly see the difference in a bike split, even if you ride legally…hilly course break things up some, which helps(which is why I mention course along with group riding). Look at the race Kriat had, he had no one to ride with, when he does have people to ride with he wins races…maybe I’m wrong and he just had a bad day. If you lined everyone up and made them race solo, the whole 70.3 miles, it would look differently…in that scenario, many (not all) of the best 70.3 distance racers in the world are the strongest cyclists in the field but maybe not the fastest swimmers (Tom Lowe, Weiss, Lieto)…you could bring over many ITU races from beijing in this type of solo race and they would do well, but not as many as you think would be able to beat the guys that I mentioned. I think there is too much disprespect to some of the 70.3 and Ironman guys thinking that ITU is better…the most talented athletes (that have excellent swims) are in ITU, so alot of guys who didn’t grow up swimming that are super talented are in non-draft racing…but again if you lined up all the triathletes in the world for a solo 70.3 race, many of the best times would come from guys who never could race ITU b/c they wouldn’t make the swim.
Honest question here - all i hear is how long course guys are stronger cyclists than ITU guys, but then why can’t Macca bridge to the lead pack on the bike in Beijing?
All it would have taken is for him to ride a 59min flat 40k
I think he rides that fast in Kona.
He’s probably a stronger cyclist than most ITU guys, but closing a couple minutes gap to a peloton is quite a task.
I understand what you are saying, but I stick by my comments. Guys like Reed & Crowie were quick a few years ago at the ITU level, but not at the top of the ITU level. To say that they can race that type of racing was true (in the past) but to say that they win at that type of racing is false. I agree that the ironman distance would be tough for an ITU type to conquer in their first attempt but a half-ironman would be within their range, especially for the guys who attack off the front (and still win). The Brownlees or Gomez would clean up at the 70.3 distance but their is more for them in the ITU events. You are correct though that not all the ITU guys would beat the top guys from Vegas, but the top ITU ones would. Especially those guys like A Brownlee who attack off the front and still win.
The most talented 70.3 distance athletes are still racing ITU. That is not meant as any disrespect to Crowie or Lieto, but those guys are really ironman guys who stepped down in distance for the weekend.
What do you think Macca would say?
I agree there’s alot of talent in ITU (and you could be right the best across any distance were in beijing) b/c it’s where most of the top guys start in other countries, and they go there b/c they get immediate funding and the lesser talented guys are weeded out. The situation is though that when an ITU athlete comes to race non-draft we don’t often get to see them ride totally on their own, so we may not know really how strong they are on the bike(or how well they run off a really hard bike effort). Granted to stay in a front group of cyclists in a big race, you have to be really really strong to sit legally anyways…but we’re talking who’s the very best here. Groups forming on the bike though is just the way it is, but it may skew peoples opinions when the bigger groups in big races form with the best swimmers…look at steelhead duathlon, alot of guys (including myself) got to ride in groups we normally don’t ride with and our bike splits were better b/c of it. A top swimmer gets that chance every race, even if it means being caught from behind. So they can hang on legally at 10-12 meters with less wattage and it skews the results. This is not new news to anyone, we all know it, and its your own problem if you can’t swim…i’m just saying, talentwise across all 3 sports may be different than it appears on the results sheet b/c of the pack dynamics on the bike.
Please feel free to mention the superiority of the ITU women to Rinny (the IM world champion) someday, because from what I remember from Hyvee last week, she pretty much owned those ITU girls.
Good point, she was the first loser (I mean that is a joke, obviously she is a tremendous athlete). Too bad Jenkins wasn’t there, it would have been neat to see what she could do in a non-drafting race, especially the way she has been racing of late. She was obviously concentrating on the big races.
I don’t know that very many non-draft olympic distance races with big fields nowadays are truly non-draft, just b/c over 40km it’s hard to get much seperation, if you’re smart you’re gonna fight to stay in contact the whole bike with the guys you leave the swim with. You can save quite a bit of energy for that given speed in a group of 10 guys, even if you are yo-yo’ing to stay in contact, versus the athlete who had a bad swim and is riding alone behind. So I don’t think that Hy-Vee woulda been a good race to really see who’s a better non-draft racer between Jenkins and Carfrae, b/c it’s still similar to ITU racing and most likely Jenkins woulda had alot more girls to ride wth (if it’s anything like the mens race) than Carfrae. So again, the faster swimming athletes always have a better chance at a good result in many races today b/c of the option to ride in a group. Ironman the bike is so long that it seperates things more, harder 70.3 courses seperate things. Non-Draft racing though has become more and more like ITU. I guess that’s what we get for making the swim so short relative to the bike and run, it’s the only way to make the swim more important :-).
If we had a triathlon that is run-swim-bike we’d probably have a really interesting race :-). Every race would have a breakaway group and a chase group…would be really exciting.