Update - NYC Tri Water Quality (scam)

Triathlon Forum
1

Several athletes were concerned that a blatant breach of trust and safety occurred by having the swim portion of the NYC Tri take place after heavy rains, which has a direct and well-known link to making the Hudson River unsafe to swim in. On the Wednesday (7/6) before the race, NYC got 1.5 inches of rainfall, enough - by far - to ruin the safety of the water quality for several days. Then on Friday (7/8), the City got another 1.5" of rain. Three inches of rain in as many days is a lot of rain! This double blow has ALWAYS caused the Hudson to get very, very polluted by run-off and sewer overflows. Another swimming event in the area, with years of river experience, cancelled their race without any debate. The problem was obvious.

Despite the rainfall, the NYC Tri continued to publicize on ST and in their mandatory pre-race meetings that the water was healthy, that they were testing “every day” and that they would never put athletes’ health and safety at risk. Athletes trusted them and made decisions to go to the event based on these pronouncements.

So, given how obvious the problem seemed, several people asked a simple question, ***"***Can you explain how you knew the water was safe by saying what organization did what tests, when, and what the results were?" After 5 weeks of asking that simple question many many times, the RD - and now USAT - have refused to answer: The RD has changed his story multiple times: test times and agency names change with every response; documentation is promised and none delivered. USAT said they would get specific documentation from the RD, but now refuses to say if they got any nor will they release any information

In the most bizarre twist, now the USAT has said that they and the RD “controlled the elements to provide a window of good water.” They didn’t stop the rain, so they are saying that they got the New Yorkers to stop flushing their toilets that weekend?

It is obvious that the RD, faced with the logistics hassles of canceling/replacing the swim leg knew held the swim anyway because it was easier and more financially attractive to him. The water was not safe to swim in and he knew it.

While it is incredible that the RD can act so cavalierly with the truth and still be selling registrations for next year’s event, it is even more disappointing that the USAT is an accomplice in this. T****his is, pure and simple, a safety scam based on financial gain by the RD at the expense of athletes. The USAT is aware of it and is allowing it to go on. This is not like mis-measuring the run course length. This is a fundamental safety issue that the RD of a high-profile event, and now the USAT, is lying about to the athletes.

Can anyone help get leverage to get to the bottom of this? Simple safety questions are being stonewalled and the NGB is not doing their basic job of ensuring athlete safety, setting a very bad precedent. The more pressure we can put on USAT and others, the better. Does anyone have connections in the City to help out?

2

I think you should chill out a bit. I did the race and didn’t notice anything that bad. Furthermore, to my knowledge, I have not heard of, read of (either on this forum or in any other publication), or otherwise learned of anyone suffering any harm from swimming in the Hudson as part of the triathlon. If people are somehow pschologically worse off because they swam in the Hudson then I don’t really count that as a harm—for one, the people who are hyper-concerned about water quality very likely knew that it had been raining and that this, afterall, was the Hudson river. Beyond psychology, what types of “harms” did people suffer? Did they get sick? Did they have skin problems? Bacteria problems? What? All I heard was bitching and complaining, which I think is par for any course.

3

I agree with you gigs. All we get from the few people who keep posting over and over and over again is inflammatory claims as statement of fact. I keep waiting to hear a testimonial about anything but a day of loose stool. Until someone steps forward and documents harm from the swim I really don’t care what testing they did or how it came out. Yes I did the race and enjoyed the swim.

Pat

4

public swimming areas are monitored for coliform bacteria levels and there are bathing standards set by the health department. the results of any monitoring are public record. you should be able to get the recorded values for the time period you’re interested in.

5

Hello, I’m no where near NY and didn’t hear anything about this before hand, but if testing was done by USAT and the results were bad I’d be very curious. They flought (sp) safety concerns every time they have a dspute with a RD and to cover up something would not be particularly amusing.

Styrrell

6

Until someone steps forward and documents harm from the swim I really don’t care what testing they did or how it came out

That is an interesting stance. Do you work for a pharmaceutical, asbestos or tobacco company by chance? How can you say it is ok to conduct a race in unsafe conditions as long as no one is hurt?

Didn’t race this race and don’t even live there but I think the issue isn’t if someone got sick. The issues here are did they conduct a swim they knew was unsafe? If so that is serious since we trust USAT and RDs to conduct safe (as possible) races and to not lie about conditions. Each person should be able to make an informed decision with the facts.

Second are they hiding something?

I am only going by a random post on ST but if they did this or are hiding info that is a serious issue. The RD and USAT should respond to requests, especially USAT.

7

No, I work for none of the above. However I did other races this summer and no one is posting endlessly on slowtwitch demanding to see evidence that the water was safe at those races either. So NYC tri conducted a race. They made a decision that the water was safe. If someone had significant problems then I agree, of course it would be appropriate to go back and review the testing/the results etc. I just don’t think it’s fair to put an RD under the microscope without cause. I’ve only read accusations that the water must have been unsafe yet no one has fessed up to significant medical problems after the swim. I care because this kind of accusatory attitude, I think, makes being an RD and running a race “not worth the hassle” and I think harms our sport.

Pat

8

I’m surprised you are still clinging to this. Did something happen to you as a result of swimming in the Hudson during the NYC Tri? Please let us know. I understand that you felt misguided and lied to, but you are the one who jumped into the water, they didn’t push you. The way I look at it, is that I knew the Hudson was gross no matter rain or shine. Disgusting, but I still swam in it for 1500 meters for the race. My choice. I knew it was gross. If you happened to look at the water when you were walking from the transition area to the start, you should have seen the condoms, trash, cigarette butts, and the oil residue on top of the water washing up against the rocks. The Hudson is gross. Everyone knows that. Your argument would be just as valid if you were arguing about the air quality in New York. Good luck, I hope you did not get sick from the water.

9

Agreed. If there is no Harm to anyone, then I am not sure why anyone wants to belabor the point.

10

Hello,

Where i live a promoter tried to get a tri off the ground in a historically polluted lake. They tested daily, then it rained and the tests went south, two years in row. This is not uncommon, typically pollutant go way up after rain. Given this I’m not suprised people are curious, although in my case i never would’ve swam in the lake in question, test results or not.

Styrrell

11

I agree with you we shouldn’t harrass RDs but I do think he is being reasonible in asking for documentation on a test(s) they say they did and that the RD and USAT should respond in an honest and timely fashion.

It may not be fair to put him under a microscope but the easiest way to resolve this is to provide the information being requested.

for the record, based on description alone above I would have taken a pass.

12

Get the test results from the public agency and then we can discuss a cover up or not.

I did the race and agree that it was my choice to jump into the gross water. On the walk down I saw a dead rat, used condom, and other things but made a choice to get in and race. There are many things that regular americans ingest in their bodies that are known to kill. One swim in the hudson was my choice…I did try and stay out in the current and away from the slow moving water to limit my contact with the “gross stuff.”

The race was great and I would do it again!

13

Actually, I bailed on going to the race (losing my entry fee and the cost of a hotel room) because, when I heard the Manhattan Island Marathon was canceled, I figured that the water was unsafe and that the RD was f.o.s (like the river). So, yes, I am an “aggreived party.” I am out $. I won my age group there last year and I had fun at the race.

I have done 4 Hudson River swims, and LOVE swimming in that environment because it is different. But it is a definitely marginal place to swim, and since, like most participants, I do not run a water quality testing lab, I have to rely on the judgement of a trusted authority to say which side of the margin the water quality is. We also all pay dues to USAT to enforce safeguards as well as provide insurance so RD’s can run races safely. Unless you from Mars, you know that is the backbone of our sport.

In this case, the RD was obviously lying and the USAT doesn’t care. And unless you and he know more than anyone else, you probably don’t know what the long term effects of exposure to such water is.

The big point is, of course, that no one should be above the rules, right? Maybe you are someone who thinks that there should be no health code in restaurants? Or that second-hand smoke is fine because only a few people got coughs the next day? Or that USAT shouldn’t require RD’s to a standard of safety and that your USAT dues should be flushed into the river? I don’t think the sport is well served if that is the case.

The RD lied to the participants and is lying now. You think that is fine for some myopic, “live free or die” reason that equates not getting shot while playing Russian Roulette with a safe practice. That is your choice. There is no accounting for stupidity, there should be an accounting for breaking basic safety rules and for breaking a explicit and well-defined trust. Can you give me an example where it is OK for an RD to lie or not respond to a simple and basic NGB-mandated safety issue?

14

NO HARM = NO FOUL?? That’s junk. We had a race director here in Arizona, 3 Disciplines, that lost their sanctioning from USAT because they said their races were “unsafe”…no one was ever hurt at a 3D race, they did a decent job at producting races, though USAT said they were “Unsafe”. USAT is a joke, and this further proves it. If the water was un-safe, then SAFETY FOR ATHLETES is the top priority. The race should have been cancelled. It doesn’t matter that no one got hurt that we know of. The RD should lose his sanctioning if he was “unsafe” by hosting this race. It happened here in Arizona, why not in the Big Apple?

15

Get the test results from the public agency and then we can discuss a cover up or not.

see points 1 and 2 of original post. What public agency?

16

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dep/

This is the public agency that the NYC TRI group stated that they used to monitor quality. I do not have time to go through the site to find the readings for the day but someone I am sure can…

17

OK, Reg, back up your statements. Prove to me that “The RD was obviously lying”.

Pat

18

Another swimming event in the area, with years of river experience, cancelled their race without any debate. The problem was obvious.

Reggiedog,

The swim event that you are speaking of was cancelled due to serve weather. It was the day before the NYC tri and they were five hours into the swim before the severe weather hit.

http://www.nycswim.org/Articles/Article.aspx?Article_ID=1028

19

No, you have bad info on that/read carelessly.

The “unoffical” race had the weather problem. The “official” Manhattan Island Marathon race was cancelled on Friday due to water quality. To quote the press release:

The Marathon Swim was held as an unsanctioned, unofficial event due to the storm water run-off and recent torrential rains from the remnants of Hurricane Cindy.

They “let” people swim unofficially (after the City pulls their permit) because people come from all around the world and train for a year, so they let them make their own decision after a very clear, all-competitors meeting where they explain exactly the problem with the water and why it is considered unsafe to swim.

20

So no harm/no foul? How do you know there was no harm? My boyfriend picked up an intestinal parasite in Morocco and didn’t know for 10 years. There was significant harm (although delayed) which resulted in him having to consume arsnic for a period of time (not pleasant). I was pissed to discover after the fact that a race I particiapated in at Mission Bay in San Diego was the site of a toxic waste dump. Most triathletes I know are hyper sensitve about health, I don’t think its too much to ask to swim in a safe, clean evnvironment…kj