Although I am loathe to start yet another OT thread. . .there seems to be interest on this forum in hashing through current issues. . .so here’s my contribution. . .
For those who are writhing with contempt over the events unfolding around treatment of prisoners in Iraq. . .I would have you read a contemporary account of treatment of AMERICANS held captive. . .Michael Durant, the Blackhawk pilot shot down and held captive in Somalia, has written his own account of the ordeal, "In the Company of Heroes). There are details in his book that clarify and amplify what many saw or read in “Blackhawk Down”. One event in particular points to far more heinous acts and atrocities committed against Americans than what we are currently seeing and reading about in the news.
Now. . .understand this. . .I DO NOT IN ANY WAY CONDONE OR EXCUSE THESE ACTIONS. Nor do I mean to minimize them. In fact, I think the evidence of maltreatment of Americans, both in well documented WWII and Vietnam cases, as well as more current stories like Durants, demand that our own treatment of captives be 1000% beyond reproach. But we have in no way cornered the market on depravity. Indeed, current events often pale in comparison to treatment of Americans in captivity. Unfortunately, acts such as those currently coming to public light, present a forked tongue message to the world.
Although we, as Americans, understand that our corporate national psyche absolutely abhors these actions. . .ask yourself this: If you were in an Arab or Muslim (contrary to popular American belief these two terms are NOT mutually inclusive) country. . .what would you believe about Americans and our intent in Iraq?
It doesn’t matter what the rest of the world does. We should set the standard and treat all prisoners with respect and human dignity. We should not compare ourselves to the rest of the world. The people who have done this and are responsible for allowing this to happen should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.
…that so many postings that defend Bush, Rumsfeld, the situation in Iraq, and every other issue dear to Republican/conservative supporters end up with an argument of the type “Well, <insert_favorite_hated_symbol> is/was much worse”? The references to mistreatment of prisoners in other wars and by other groups, and the references to Kerry and Clinton (Clinton!) continue to pop up everywhere. Is it because the positions taken in these posts are only supportable by comparing it to something that may be worse?
Am I the only one who sees the irony in Republicans/conservatives comparing anything to Clinton?
Completely off topic: the New York Times has determined that my brief letter to the editor regarding Karen Hughes’ claim about Bush playing “varsity” rugby at Yale is worthy of being published in their Book Review section, probably on May 23. What a rag that paper must be…
Its really sad that a few horrible acts make us all look bad. But what kills me is our media keeps showing this over and over and over! And the media doesnt show how badly the iraqis treated captured Americans. I think the media has overblown this and may have endagered our troops.
If we are not going to abide by the Geneva Convention we should not expect that our enemies will do so. Former high level military officers have been predicting there would be increasing problems with treatment of American prisoners since the whole Camp X-Ray fiasco began.
I seem to recall that when the media publicized the four Americans whose bodies were burned by an Iraqi mob, there was a lot of outcry that it was sensationalistic and disrespectful. When there were pictures of flag-draped coffins, conservatives complained that it undermined the war effort and was disrespectful of the dead. When Nightline wanted to run pictures of the American servicemen and women killed in the war, conservatives said that it was a political stunt and undermined the war effort. Now, you and others in this forum are complaining that there is not enough attention being paid to the horrible things done to Americans. Which is it?
Were you the guy who determined that Hughes claim about “varsity rugby” was fallacious because in fact, rugby was a club sport at Yale when W attended?
The U.S. Military, as De Facto police force for the entire world, must hold itself to a much higher standard of conduct in all areas than any of our adversaries.
100% correct Tom. And most of us (servicemembers) do. Unfortunately. . .a tiny minority has stained the reputations of us all. For that, I am truly angry. It is a page which cannot be unturned; a page at which the public, both domestic and foreign, are rightly outraged. Unfortunately, watching the fallout seems a bit like watching roaches scurry for cover when the lights are turned on. . .
I agree JayC, it is a profoundly negative reflection on our military and administration.
It is worth considering that this is indicative of one unit, reportedly poorly administered, by one chain of command. That does in no way excuse or diminsh the significance of it. But it does make sense to maintain perspective- whatever perspective may be.
If the actions of one PFC. costs the President the election, that is not appropriate.
In the Marine Corps we have a catch phrase that caught on a few years ago. . .“The Strategic Lance Corporal.” We used it to instill a sense of responsibility in the young Marines. . .implying that decisions THEY made on the battlefield could result in strategic consequences for the U.S. and its allies. . . Of course it was implied that the “right” decision would be made.
Here we have that concept personified. . .NEGATIVELY. The actions of a few (or inaction in the case of some levels of leadership) have caused severe strategic consequences for U.S. policy.
Were you the guy who determined that Hughes claim about “varsity rugby” was fallacious because in fact, rugby was a club sport at Yale when W attended?
I think it is far too early to determine that higher ups were ignoring the problem. We have a Major General testifying today about an investigation that began long ago into these actions, and speaking quite bluntly about his findings.
What we have now are higher ups trying to answer for actions which they don’t have all the answers for yet. Unfortunately for them, someone put some of the answers out into the public domain before all the evidence could be thoughtfully considered and appropriate actions taken.
Now the difficulty will be determining appropriate actions against appropriate people without succumbing to political pressure from either side or from foreign policy concerns.
There seems no doubt that the actions ought to be punished. . .and in some cases quite severely. But we ought to let the “process” that Slowman alludes to in his article take place before demanding heads on platters. The more we demand public “hangings” based on information in the public domain, the less likely justice will be appropriately served.
My mother just left Paris and is now in the S of France. My mother is a very proud American, but she admits that she feels a tad uncomfortable there in light of what’s been going on. BTW, she says the political cartoons have been brutal lately.
No reason. I just tend to pay attention to things involving Karen Hughes because they’re usually amusing. I’m still trying to figure out why she thinks anybody should listen to a goddamned thing she says, given that she is a paid shill, and has no policy experience to speak of. And even Tucker Carlson says her lying crosses the line into mental illness.