Have a look at Robbie McEwen. He is no giant. He is more of a pocket rocket type. Its mainly in the coordination, and harnessing your available 10 second power and delivering it to the pedals. More of an efficiency and to some extent bone geometry thing than anything to do with straight out brute force.
I’d like to know if sprinters have relatively small feet compared to their femurs. To some extent, this should be the case, as you don’t want to loose a whole pile of power and coordination trying to transmit the huge force from the big muscles, through a long foot that is realisitically adding no mechanical advantage at high RPM.
I love Squats. When I was doing them I was a very strong cyclist. Some of the faster roadies that I know also do squats and love them. I would squat 585 for reps and go butt to the ground and back up, I loved it. Then I got out of the gym and concentrated on Tri Training and had the worst season ever and was riddled with injuries such as ITB.
Now Im back in the Gym, have had no ITB problems and love it plus im getting faster, but to each his own, I only speak for myself and what works for me.
Actually for this reason, I aslo find that in general the step up, going right up onto the ball of the foot at the end of the power phase is more applicable to biking and running in general. It also isolates each leg.
The flat footed squat is great for sports like XC skiing (skate technique) and speedskating where you really transmit the bulk of your force through the heel.
Have a look at Robbie McEwen. He is no giant. He is more of a pocket rocket type. Its mainly in the coordination, and harnessing your available 10 second power and delivering it to the pedals. More of an efficiency and to some extent bone geometry thing than anything to do with straight out brute force.
I’d like to know if sprinters have relatively small feet compared to their femurs. To some extent, this should be the case, as you don’t want to loose a whole pile of power and coordination trying to transmit the huge force from the big muscles, through a long foot that is realisitically adding no mechanical advantage at high RPM.
roadie sprinters are not so much ‘pure’ sprinters though are they? hmm how would the top roadie ‘sprinters’ go against the trackies? would they get their asses handed to them?
For the record, Robbie is a MONSTER in the weight room. SOME athletes ARE strength limited. I am one of them. The more work I do in the weight room, the better I get. Simple as that. I doubled my mileage one year and had no improvement whatsoever. Anecdotal yes, but those are my data, and they certainly matter to me. One size, or one training style, does not fit all.
I love Squats. When I was doing them I was a very strong cyclist. Some of the faster roadies that I know also do squats and love them. I would squat 585 for reps and go butt to the ground and back up, I loved it. Then I got out of the gym and concentrated on Tri Training and had the worst season ever and was riddled with injuries such as ITB.
Now Im back in the Gym, have had no ITB problems and love it plus im getting faster, but to each his own, I only speak for myself and what works for me.
Dan-- stop it now!! no more squats butt to the ground—OUCH!! poor knees, poor lumbar spine!! Squat to a point that you can keep your spine neutral–(you may make it to 90 degrees in knee flexion)-- no flexion in your lumbar spine-- use your mirror to check. Really you are putting your back and knees at HUGE risk with “full” squats-- and just because it doesn’t hurt yet, doesn’t mean the damage isn’t happening.
Beppie, I hear what your saying, its bad for most folks but ive been doing this forever with no ill effects. Ive been blessed with good genetics and I listen to my body with what works and what doesnt work. I seem to get the most out of going all the way to the ground but my legs can handle it and Im not straining to much, my ligaments are used to it from years of doing it. So far so good ;))))))
Beppie, I hear what your saying, its bad for most folks but ive been doing this forever with no ill effects. Ive been blessed with good genetics and I listen to my body with what works and what doesnt work. I seem to get the most out of going all the way to the ground but my legs can handle it and Im not straining to much, my ligaments are used to it from years of doing it. So far so good ;))))))
Alrighty then-- good luck–I am not certain from a physiological standpoint what benefit you are getting from going ‘full’ (the cost far outweighs any benefit)–but as you say-- if it works for you…
We can agree on one thing-- Getting into the weight room is good!
I think I agree with all of you that going to the weight room is good. You just have to open the neural pathways to transmit that strength and power to the pedals. I can outpedal, outrun, out swim, out ski, bat better, ski better, play tennis better than many gym brutes by using coordination to my advantage. You need a combination of strength and coordination in all sports and no matter how strong you are, if you are uncoordinated, you will be inefficiently applying your brute force. Guys like Robbie McEwen, Herman Meier and Pete Sampras are insanely coordinated and strong.
On that note, when you get up to the Ironman distance, did you ever notice how tough it is to jump over a set of cups at an aid station that are splattered all over the ground. Again, you are losing brain function and coordination in addition to physical fatigue.
I agree with the less weight training approach specially for the triathletes.
You are better off doing sport specific training than losing too much time with weights ,gaining excess bulk which translates to extra body weight and slower times. Specially if you do not have the flexibility and cordination to start with.
However some core strength,push-ups,pull-ups and strecthing(maybe yoga)incorporated into any training routine using your own body weight is very beneficial.
OK…now we are getting to the crux of it :-). Going to the weight room builds cosmetic bulk. Hey, it makes you look good and since it has limted function in triathlon, well, then it is nothing but cosmetic.
I think DP, Beppie and all for that matter are offering good advice, BUT one has to determine if that fits their physique and musculature, if so then go for it if not then take it with a grain of salt and get out and train, hehehehehehhehe.
But coordination is neural pathways-- and those become open when you participate in the actions-- ie…cycling or running. Some people – probably you-- are naturally coordinated-- just as some people are gifted with great hand/eye coordination (Andre Agassi)–Strength training makes you stronger and more flexible (assuming you take your movement thru your available active range of motion)-- this will assist in opening communication btw the brain and the movement that you are asking the body to perform— more importantly, strength training gives you more functional strength and more absolute strength - which makes work easier!
“Some people – probably you-- are naturally coordinated–”
Clearly, you have not seen me swim
But to your point, coordination can be improved by simply doing the sports in question and ingraining the motor patterns…of course, you can ingrain poor technique and then your neural pathways are supporting poor technique…
hmm for some reason i never got ‘bigger’ doing weights and i did lots of them over 5 or so years. got more muscly yes, but didnt gain weight. no matter how much i ate!
"Actually for this reason, I aslo find that in general the step up, going right up onto the ball of the foot at the end of the power phase is more applicable to biking and running in general. It also isolates each leg.
The flat footed squat is great for sports like XC skiing (skate technique) and speedskating where you really transmit the bulk of your force through the heel. "
I’ve always been taught to leave the heel on the floor. Should I let my heel rise and use the ball of my foot more? Is that what you guys do? Gotta know. PLEASE ANSWER!!!
For step ups, I actually step up on my heel and just before my leg comes to a “lock” (it never does), I effectively do a calf raise, balancing with the bar on my back with all the weight on my forefoot. It strengthens the foot-calf-achilles, and its a dynamic balance exercise, that “opens up” some of the aforementioned pathways. Standing on top of a step balancing on your forefoot after 30 step ups with say 150 lbs with on your back can be pretty difficult :-).
If nothing else it makes the exercise fun and there is added pressure if some hottie is walking behind you staring at your ass as you are anaerobic with your pencil neck body hoping that you don’t drop the 150 lbs bar on her head
You just have to open the neural pathways to transmit that strength and power to the pedals.
I really agree with this. A few years ago, when I was at my peak cycling-wise, I would do a killer leg session in the weight room, then immediately hop on the bike and do about 20 hill repeats with a low cadence. I didn’t do these hard - easy actually - but the whole time I visaulized building strength an teaching my sore muscles to apply the power to the pedal stroke. I have no idea if this really did anything or not, but I’ve never ridden better, despite some seasons when I logged sick miles, lots of group riding - that whole hardcore roadie thing. I’ve fallen away from that a bit of late, but plan to get back to it over the winter.
I’ve always been taught to leave the heel on the floor. Should I let my heel rise and use the ball of my foot more? Is that what you guys do? Gotta know. PLEASE ANSWER!!!
NO NO NO-- when you raise your heel on a traditional squat, the tendency is to push your knee forward beyond your ankle and in that position you are effectively pushing your femur through your patella. Not good. On a squat or leg press, you want to feel as tho you are pushing thru your ankle-- not so much the heel or the ball of your foot-- but the heel should maintain contact with the floor or the sled in the case of the leg press. In the case of the step up that D.Paul was speaking of, the weight transfer is up against gravity and therefore raising up on the ball of the foot is a continuation of the movement upwards and is an effective training method with low risk. The risk of the step up is the downward movement with gravity-- it must be done with control and again the knee must remain over the ankle not gravity loaded in an extreme angle.
