Guys, I’ve found the definitive answer today on Cyclingnews.com. And the answer is…NOBODY KNOWS for sure.
If I’m reading the article correctly, the shaded box says Clinchers are actually a little faster, but the main article states that tubulars are actually faster:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/?id=2005/features/conti_factory
The only thing I know is that I’m replacing my Tufos with Vittorias because that’s cheaper than replacing all of my race wheels…
They did not mention gluing method in either of those Continental articles or differences in glue.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/?id=2005/features/conti_tech
I’m still wondering if everyone thinks that the Tufo Clincher-Tubulars are slower then a good set of standard clinchers?
Dave in VA
I can tell you, without question, that Vredestein Fortezza tri-comp clinchers and the conti GP3K clinchers both roll faster than the Tufo Elite Road tires.
Don’t need a scientific study or associated BS, I could tell just rolling out of my driveway…
"It’s not a bug - it’s a feature.
rmur"
Shouldn’t you provide quotes and a citation?
Thanks. I was afraid you might say,… copyright, Andy Coggan, this morning.
from the article: “Conti says its Competition 22mm tubular rolls slightly better than its GP 3000 23mm clincher, but other comparative data - such as Jobst Brandt’s figures from Japan, and tests conducted in the 1990s by Tour magazine - show the best clinchers roll slightly faster than the best tubulars.”
Let me translate what Conti says; “The Conti Competition, a $100+ tubular tire, rolls slightly better than a GP3000 (which takes almost 10 watts more to roll than a Michelin Pro Light or a Schwalbe Stelvio). So for $100, you can slightly exceed the performance of one of the slowest clincher tires available.”
– Jens
The most important part was the sentence that says the difference is inconsequential.
The debate over rolling resistence between the two tire types is interesting but I wouldn’t base a major purchase such a race wheels upon the non-difference between the two.
Buy what you want. Be happy and never look back thinking the other choice is better because it is not.
By the by, Tufo tires are awful. They feel funny, have an odd noise when rolling down the road and are highly overrated.
But wait…according to Conti’s own literature, the GP3000 isn’t their lowerst rolling resistance clincher anyway. According to this chart, their new Attack/Force combo has lower rolling resistance than either the GP3000 OR the Competition tubular .
http://www.conti-tyres.co.uk/conticycle/tyre_application/road_application.pdf
So…is the Attack/Force lower Crr than the Competition?..or isn’t it?
Like Jens says though, all the Conti tires are slower than Michelin Pro Race lights anyway. That’s not opinion either, there’s data to prove it .
One more thing, they don’t say if they’re using a latex tube inside the clincher for this comparison. The latex tube can reduce the Crr even further and most “high end” tubulars use latex tubes (which besides lowering the Crr also lessens the pinch flat likelihood). To be fair, clincher comparisons to tubulars should always use a latex tube IMHO.
Like you say, “nobody knows for sure”…but, IMHO we’ve moved beyond a “preponderance of the evidence” and are nearing up to “beyond a reasonable doubt” 
How do you find the Pro race tyres - everyone I know who has used them has suffered puncture problems & cuts.
I hear that same complaint all the time. But I’ve been riding Michelins for 5 years now, covering some 40,000+ miles, and my experience doesn’t match those reports. In all that time I have only one puncture, and that was on a rear tire with over 3000 miles on it and in great need of changing, anyway. I have found Michelins to be no better or worse than other high-end tires in the puncture/cut category.
The folks I know who say these things get a lot of flats REGARDLESS of the tire they are riding… I’ll never understand how these folks get flats like every other week, while riding less than 2000 miles per year, and I ride as much as I do and almost never get a flat…
How do you find the Pro race tyres - everyone I know who has used them has suffered puncture problems & cuts.
Everyone I know who uses them loves them…that’s one to the reasons I started seriously looking at using them. I personally don’t have a bunch of miles on them yet. I’ve had mine on since before Sea Otter and haven’t had a puncture or cut yet…and I do a “fair” amount of riding.
Now…for the Pro Lights (Pro Race without the extra casing layer) I’ve only got VERY limited riding time on my TT wheels…but again, so far, no issues and they roll great, especially with latex tubes.
there was a report in Le Cycle magazine some 3-4 years back. They had about 20 tubulars (high end) and a whole bunch of clinchers, including the axial pro (the now pro race) and the one with the second lowest rolling resistance was the axial pro.
The winner was a hand made silk tubular from dugast which is only ridden on track.
Pro race or pro race light?
FYI: I measured the Vittoria Chorno CS-20 (which should be 20 MM) at >22 mm all around the tire. The Tufo s3 lite was 22 all around the tire
Pro Race and Pro Race Light are evolutions of the tested Axial Pro…Its probably a safe assumption that the Pro Race would perform similarly to the tested Axial Pro (though no sure thing, certainly)…
I’m guessing that the Pro Race Light would score slightly better thant the Pro Race since there is less rubber to deform…but I’m no rolling dynamics expert…and other factors may actually increase the resistance…surely, though, the difference would be fairly insignificant…
I use the Pro Race for training and the Pro Race Lights for racing (yes, I have gone to the dark side by actually racing on clinchers)…I REALLY like these tires…
Michelin used to claim (though I can no longer find it on their website), that the Axial Pro Light had 25% less RR than the Axial pro. That’s actually quite a lot – ~8 watts at about 40kmh.
So far, btw, the likely RR winner is looking to be the lowly Michelin Axial Supercomp. This is just anecdotal at this point – riding a few hundred miles on well known routes with a powermeter. They did do extremely well in the Lafford RR tests. Sometime in the near future, I’m going to test them a little more formally against veloflexes and a few others. If you shop around, you can get them for less than $10.
– Jens
the point now is that the argument between tubulars and tires is irrelevant…the top tires are just as good, if not better. (the low end however, this is not true, and of course, we’re not talking track tubulars)
I remember the 25% claim…quite funny.
because we are talking about tires that are nearly identical
.
OT: lively final stage in the TdS today in case you haven’t checked into CN’s coverage …
wow… lively has got to be the understatement of the week! thanks for the reminder, I caught the last 30 min.