After reading the SUV thread, Im compelled to survey how many slowtwitchers consider themselves hippies/environmentalists. I have always thought of triathlon as a lifestyle as most do. Most athletes will agree that fitness and nutrition are the two most important things to be concerned with in this lifestyle. But what about the arena we play in? How many of you would get after someone for throwing a gu wrapper on the ground or leaving a flatted tube on the side of the road? How many would ask someone at a race, sitting in their car running the air conditioner to turn the thing off? I find it amazing that we want to train in a clean, polution free atmosphere, but arent willing to speak up about it. Really trying not to be judgemental, but this shit of people encouraging someone to buy a big ass gas guzzler makes me sick. I wont call someone a poser for riding 18 mph on a 5000k bike, but if you truly believe you as an athlete have no responsibility to being a steward for the envrionment, I dub thee poser. Off of soapbox.
" … If I say I’m an athlete I automaticly have to say I buy all the shit that is said about the enviroment?"
Oh, Mr. Tibbs, the environment is in FINE shape. Soon, you and the resilient insects will have the earth all to themselves. Where have you been, my man?
I am green, but have meet very few fellow triathletes who are, no disrespect to anyone but most of the racers I have meet seem to be more of a materielistic mind set.
Jim
I don’t think he is saying that the environment is in FINE shape. He is just pointing out that it is a lot of hulabaloo. Ex. McDonalds was forced to switch from styrofoam to paper packaging because styrofoam was so bad for the environment. Styrofoam’s crime is that it doesn’t biodegrade so takes up a lot of space in landfills. Paper on the other hand breaks down quickly and doesn’t take up as much space. However, what was never brought to light is that the chemicals used in the making of paper wrappers - especially when combined with food products (I know this is stretching it with McD’s) - create toxins when the paper breaks down. This means that instead of just having a space problem we now have a toxin that must be controlled - creating additional complexity and cost in the waste management process.
My rambling point is that frequently the hot button of casual environmentalists is misinformed and mistargeted. I too think the SUV thing is out of control. I hate seeing the single person driving on the highway with a spotless SUV getting 15 MPG or less and it doesn’t even have hitch on it. That said I have no problem with someone buying a large vehicle to transport their equipment, tow their boat, their horses, even carry around large items. The reality is that a small car being forced to do these things will break down faster and end up causing more pollution in the long run.
Grew up hunting and fishing, I don’t do that these days. Not because of some epiphany; I just finally realized I don’t have the patience to fish and hate to wake up early and be cold for hunting.
Anyway, you certainly wouldn’t callme an environmentalist in the traditional sense. But seeing people intnetionally litter the course makes me nuts.
Shouted down a lady at the annapolis ten miler who threw her water bottle into the woods. Unfortunately not fast enough to catch her and really tell her what I thought of her.
Very troubled to see all the crap people throw on the course at triathlons. In fact I think it should be an on the spot DQ. Riding at the back of the pack as I often do I see lots of stuff all over the ground. Some of it may have been an accident, but there’s no way all of it is.
The first thing I really noticed when watching the XTERRA coverage on CBS and the thing I really remember is Conrad Stoltz littering the course when he changed his tire. I don’t remember who won, but I remember seeing him do that.
Yes, but to put it all in perspective: do you ever think that all our discussions about SUVs or no SUVs are about as meaningful as passengers re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic as it listed in the cold and dark Atlantic after the ship hit the big icy rock?
We are all toast. I think our species will soon be in the dust bin of history no matter what we drive. Nature bats last.
"most of the racers I have meet seem to be more of a materielistic mind set. "
I’m old enough to have lived and have been part of the hippie culture of the late 60’s and early 70’s but only really caught the tail end due to my age. The true hippies would have been the older brothers and sisters of the kids I grew up with. The movement grew in a turbulent time with the Viet Nam war, civil rights and a time of great social change. I smoked pot, grew my hair long, hitchhiked around the world, went to San Francisco, lived in a commune for awhile and participated in public protests. Despite some of the silly idealism it was at least a time where people where putting the good of the society in front of their own interests. This is something we don’t see much of today.
Having worked at a paper mill; I would like to note that probably the most toxic chemical in paper is potato starch (used to decrease density). There is some nasty chemicals used to treat the water before it leaves the plant but most of that does not come in contact with the paper.
BTW, I’m pretty green but I’ve obviously worked in a paper mill and was a clear cut logger in Montana during high school so I see both sides.
I wouldn’t call myself an evironmentalist but I try to do what I can to influence the powers that be to take note and continue to improve the world we all inhabit. So, to that end I practice a form of legislative capitalism I call “voting with my dollars”. For example, about 18 months ago my family’s avg. fuel economy was approx. 18 mpg. My wife and I drive a total of about 600 miles per week, we liked the vehicles we were driving but we both felt “hoggish” about driving all those miles with 1 person per car. So we dumped both cars and bought a small diesel and a hybrid gas/electric. The number of miles that we drive has not changed but our family avg fuel economy is now over 50 mpg. We voted with our dollars telling automakers that we would like to see more vehicles with these types of power plants. It isn’t much but it is something I can control, and yeah I feel good about it. FWIW, I get 600 miles per fill up in my Civic Hybrid @ ~$18.00 per fill up.
Vince
It’s always nice when others tell others how to live. This is the USA, people can drive and live how they want, within reason. I you want to ride a bike ride it, if others want to drive an SUV they can. Hippies seem to be quit full of them importance.
No, I don’t litter or drive an SUV and I live in the country. All me choices.
Depends on the paper of course. The linerboard for the cardboard boxes in question would have almost certainly included Kraft pulp.
Lots of chlorinated organics in that stuff, the most commonly used scare word among them would have been dioxin. I myself was responsible for testing the waste streams coming from the Kraft unit and the bleaching process. Both of those had had COD readings off the charts. The more advanced lab tests for the chlorinated organics and exactly what was in them we sent out.
The mill you worked at may have been using processes that didn’t generate much nasty suff; but lots of them do. Particularly if they are making cardboard filler or liner.
I drive an SUV … I also have 3 dogs, routinely hall multiple bikes (inside said SUV), live in the Flint Hills of Kansas, suffer through icy, snowy and freezing winters, have a basic understanding of phsyics, have a wife who is a veterinarian. But, I very rarely take my SUV off-road (and then, only when camping, or some such other activity; never for “muddin’” as the rednecks say).
And, I frequently ride my bike (or even run) to work.
So, do I qualify as SUV worthy? Just wondering…
i dont care how ya live so long as it dosent affect me.
i think your worthy
.
I’m kind of ambivilant on this. I’m not a SUV fan. I want a clean environment. On the other hand, triathlon is a consumptive activity. It compels me to buy lots of stuff and drive lots of miles. Even with my fairly economical Acccord, the 5-10K miles during a triathlon season is wasteful to some. Maybe if I drove that old microbus that I saw last week…
You could make a case that anything I do effects you. If I fart the gas hurts the ozone layer, that may effect you. You draw a line from athlete to environmentalist, this does not seem like a straight line to me. You do don’t want to be judgmental (I have found that people that say this are only non-judgmental to those that think like they do), but you can’t understand how someone would think differently than you.
Poser
I live in Chicago and I agree with you, Matt. A lot of environmentalists are pissed off people and they say and do criminal things to get their points across. I never got that. They feel people don’t have the right to drive gas guzzlers but it is within their own rights to go cause millions of $ of damage painting and carving up GM’s hummers?!? Somebody show me the sanity of these people.
I understand your fear - I presume that if you live in Houston a large portion of your own life is potentially directly impacted. However, this is an old historical argument that gets raised in one form or another everytime society is on the verge of a technological advance. i.e. The automobile will put all the buggy makers out of business… The mechanized textile industry will get rid of the seamstress… computers will increase productivity and put all the bookkeepers out of work… The reality is that many of these oil jobs will disappear but will be replaced by jobs working for the replacement industry (i.e. fuel cell co’s etc.) and the expansive industries that usually arise in the wake of these changes. Just think of the thousands employed by the software industry (yes even after the fall) and realize that many of these people would have been the bookkeepers and typsists in the pre computer days. And non fossill fuel transportation isn’t going to hit the mainstream anywhere near as fast as computers did allowing for an easier transition for the existing workers.
Hee hee hee hee! Your post made me laugh - I had to post. I live in a big Oil/Gas city too! Jobs won’t matter when there is no air to breath and we are all burnt up like toast! New jobs can be made… Hydrogen… the new clean fuel… Plenty of new jobs. There is just too much $$$$ tied up in oil and gas. I just hope that it runs out before it kills us.
I am green - I recycle everything I can (including my neighbors!), bike/run instead of drive, pick up my dog’s poop - but I am still aware that my presence has an impact on the enviro. I do eat some fast food, and I produce garbage at my home. I also have a car which I use. Plus, I like nice stuff! I don’t think that “Green” and “materialistic” are mutally exclusive! I am definitely both. I try not to judge those who don’t understand the need to live green, instead, offer subtle advice. Offer to do their recycling!!!
Wow, I never thought that my simple question as what suv to buy would go this far… I do care about the environment but again, what do you do when you own a house, a business, 4 bikes and need to carry all that stuff around? And go to home depot 4 times a week because I am remodeling my house??? Practicality (is that a word?) That is the whole reason why I want an suv… So I can go to pottery barn outlet and bring a piece of furniture back, so I can leave my bike locked up IN the car (not on the rack) all day because I have a busy life and “live” in my car at times and need to RUSH to the group ride after work… You know what I mean? I might not have 3 kids but being a triathlete, driving to races and all the others stuff, I have to say, an SUV makes my life a lot easier…