Using the calculations for wattage from the Kinetic site, and a rear wheel computer (w/cadence) I now know my wattage. So now what? It seems that every 1/2 MPH is worth about 20 + watts, I have the exact calculation for each .5 MPH on a paper taped on my stem on the trainer.
Should I use the wattage instead of my HR, or use both? Or use wattage to make sure my HR is in line with day to day training?
How do you use wattage?
Thx, Gary
On an indoor trainer you can use both with more weight to the given to the wattage.
For some interesting reading goto:
I would like to see a graph comparing kinetics’ graph to a power meter like the hub or bottom bracket type.
What does cadence have to do with the kinetic wattage graph? I thought the graph was just dependent on speed?
Does it matter or change with the amount of tension on the rear wheel?
Gary, the Kinetic tables are notoriously imprecise (no knock on Kinetic intended). The simple fact is that tire pressure and roller pressure can make wattage at a given speed vary by as much as 30-50 watts. From one ride to the next with the same bike and trainer you will see variations as much as 25 watts.
You simply cannot reliably train with power without a power measuring device. You really should buy yourself a Powertap or Ergomo.
With that said, I wear a HR monitor when on the trainer, but simply out of “interest.” I mark all my trainer workouts to power. If I’m doing an hour of endurance work, I go to 180 watts and just sit there. Some days, that’s a 148 HR; some days it’s 155.
If I’m doing a 2x20 set, I go to 230 watts and sit there. Some days, that’s 165 HR; some days it’s 174.
There’s a nice guide to training with power at
Gary, the Kinetic tables are notoriously imprecise (no knock on Kinetic intended). The simple fact is that tire pressure and roller pressure can make wattage at a given speed vary by as much as 30-50 watts. From one ride to the next with the same bike and trainer you will see variations as much as 25 watts.
You simply cannot reliably train with power without a power measuring device. You really should buy yourself a Powertap or Ergomo.
With that said, I wear a HR monitor when on the trainer, but simply out of “interest.” I mark all my trainer workouts to power. If I’m doing an hour of endurance work, I go to 180 watts and just sit there. Some days, that’s a 148 HR; some days it’s 155.
If I’m doing a 2x20 set, I go to 230 watts and sit there. Some days, that’s 165 HR; some days it’s 174.
There’s a nice guide to training with power at
If I mount the wheel with the same roller pressure and same tire pressur for each ride there will be no variation:
http://www.hostsrv.com/webmaa/app1/MSPScripts/webm1003/KineticTrainerCustom.jsp
The Kinetic Trainer has a functional range for continuous operation of from 20 watts (5 MPH) to over 2,500 watts (50 MPH), more than enough for world champion riders.
Crank enabled Kinetic to calibrate the Kinetic Trainer using a Power-Tap Hub. Kinetic measured the power output in watts produced by the Kinetic Trainer at various speeds and cross-referenced this data with mathematical models created at www.AnalyticCycling.com to verify that power feels like the road.
Tire pressure is an easy variable to deal with, but what method do you use to keep the roller pressure the same. I struggle with this when trying to replicate step testing and such. Any ideas?
easy, just set the roller aginst the tire, take out the slack, then count the desired number of turns of the knob - by hand … duplicate on each training session. same tire pressure and same roller resistance for each ride.
Gary
I am no expert so take what I have to say with a grain of salt. I would use them both, HR training and Watt training to improve, not just one all the time. In reading your past post, I know you sometimes do intervals where you hold a certain speed. Well you may decide on your trainer to hold a certain amount of watts while recording your HR, and other times holding a certain HR while recording your watts. All in an effort to gain more information about yourself (your body) which can ultimately help you train smarter. I really just think knowing the watts you produce is just another tool along with HR, PE, AET and others that can help you train smart.
Did that make sense to you?
During the TDF I heard Chris Carmichael use the power to weight ratio as goals for riders such as 15-17 watts per Kg. (or somewhere around there) for a top tour competitor.
For a Lance Armstrong-type rider, I believe the figures are actually about 6-7 watts/kilogram sustained.
A sprinter like Petacchi or Cipo can produce up to 30 watts/kilogram for a few seconds.
I remember him saying something and was trying to figure out the range, thanks for the clarification.
for what it is worth:
http://www.t2r.org/training/powerprofiling.htm
a chart of power/kg vs time for classes of cyclists
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If I mount the wheel with the same roller pressure and same tire pressur for each ride there will be no variation:
The problem is, you can’t do these things with the equipment at hand! I know, I know…check the pressure, same # of turns of the screw, etc…But, it is NOT the same any two times in a row.
If you are really training with power, 15-20 watts makes all the difference. That’s the difference between top 20 and a podium finish at State’s!
I have a resistance trainer (1-Up) and a Powertap. The wattage at a given gearing, at a given cadence, at given roller and tire pressures varies each session by up to 30 watts! I have tried to hold all the variables constant, but the Powertap doesn’t lie. Even my Computrainer (which is supposed to automatically adjust to tire/roller pressure variation via the rolldown calibration) will vary power readings by 10-15 watts each session.
I’m only weighing in on this because I think it is very important for people to know the difference between training with a resistance unit and HR, versus training with power measurement. We can all get better either way, but one is simply not the other. If you’re really going to make a commitment to a power training paradigm, you have to be able to measure power accurately, and you have to ditch your HR monitor. Resistance units don’t measure power – they provide resistance; there is no accurate “equivalence chart” available.
Post this question over at the wattage forum on topica.com and you’ll get responses from people that have actually tested this issue in the lab, and who have been measuring power output for 20+ years. Coggan, for one, would find this thread laughable.
danb wrote, "For what it is worth:
http://www.t2r.org/training/powerprofiling.htm
a chart of power/kg vs time for classes of cyclists "
Too bad T2R couldn’t be bothered to explain the table or credit the original author, A. Coggan
http://www.peakscoachinggroup.com/powerprofiling.html