Annnnnnnddd… pass the popcorn:
https://www.outsideonline.com/2396926/trail-runners-are-lazy-parasites
Sigh. 3/10 on the troll-meter.
Actually this has been a major topic of discussion in my trail running community. Why do the mountain bikers turn out in force for trail maintenance but, excepting a few regulars, the runners can’t be bothered?
Clickbait article for sure, but also true for whatever reason in my area.
Groomed winter trails have also become a point of contention, we have over 30k of trail groomed for classic and skate cross country skiing that thru years of education and advocacy people know to stay off from on foot to preserve the surface. Rarely any problems.
The local mtb group started grooming a slightly tighter 10k corridor nearby a few years ago nearby and trail runners flocked to it, toe digging and post holing the surface constantly. Posted lots of signs asking for foot traffic with snowshoes only, please stay off in freeze/thaw cycles, etc. Constantly ignored by runners. Lots of other trail in the area closed to bicycles by the land manager to preserve for hiking and running in the summer/winter as well, but the runners come strait to the mtb trail to run, in the summer because its so well maintained and in the winter because its groomed.
I was running on some trails for 15 years and they were great until mountain bikers decided to ruin them. They made all these ridiculous little switchbacks and banks. They threw logs and branches on the old sections of trail. Saw an article in the local paper with them congratulating themselves on all their labor making the trails better for bikers (ruining them for runners).
In the article, they were complaining about something going on, I now forget what, that might impact the trail and were sore that they were not notified ahead of time. I commented on the website that they changed the trail without notifying anyone and they answered that the trail work had been approved by the park service (I don’t doubt it but that’s not “public” notice) and was publicly announced with (get this) a sign inside a nearby bike shop.
In the article they complain that runners ruin trails by going around puddles, but it’s the bikes that make the big ruts. And in my experience, bikers expect runners to get off the trail when they’re coming through. Don’t want to get grass stains on their tires apparently.
Truth be told, I did ride my mountain bike on those trails a few times, but I was fine with the old route. And don’t know why they couldn’t have left the old trail. It feels silly to run a zig-zag every 10 feet with the banked curves.
I dunno. The old trail sounds boring. The new trail sounds dope. Where is it?
I was running on some trails for 15 years
Just out of curiosity how many trail days have you attended in that time?
Couldn’t he write the article without insulting people?
That wouldn’t get as many views.
Much better to invest time and effort in to more trail building and working on improving access than having a go at other trail users to be honest.
We may be parasites, but we’re not lazy – two hours of trail running for a normal workout does not qualify as “lazy.” (Smile)
Kidding aside, I think part of the deal is that trail runners are soloist by nature and generally not organized into groups. We don’t talk about the sport much, choosing to go out by ourselves.
The article is a good reminder that everyone should help out. Consider me reminded …
Clickbait article for sure, but also true for whatever reason in my area.
Groomed winter trails have also become a point of contention, we have over 30k of trail groomed for classic and skate cross country skiing that thru years of education and advocacy people know to stay off from on foot to preserve the surface. Rarely any problems.
The local mtb group started grooming a slightly tighter 10k corridor nearby a few years ago nearby and trail runners flocked to it, toe digging and post holing the surface constantly. Posted lots of signs asking for foot traffic with snowshoes only, please stay off in freeze/thaw cycles, etc. Constantly ignored by runners. Lots of other trail in the area closed to bicycles by the land manager to preserve for hiking and running in the summer/winter as well, but the runners come strait to the mtb trail to run, in the summer because its so well maintained and in the winter because its groomed.
Kind of makes me wonder why running snowshoes have never caught on, I love them but no one really uses them. Recently our local mtn bike group started looking at posting signs for the winter groomed trails that stated fat bikers to use low psi, hikers to use snowshoes.
Now if we could only get dog owners to walk with a leash (which is law) and pick up their dogs crap or at least kick it off the trail.
Actually this has been a major topic of discussion in my trail running community. Why do the mountain bikers turn out in force for trail maintenance but, excepting a few regulars, the runners can’t be bothered?
My guess is that, at some point, MTB-ers got a bad name for destroying trails and the way to take care of that bad rep is to put time into responsible trail maintenance (water run-off, measures to keep bikers on singletrack). Runners haven’t gotten that kinda rep yet. Runners are pretty good at trespassing though! We’re good at peeling back, bending and cutting fencing to access trail running!
I mean, he’s kind of got a point. But the phrasing is just aimed to be divisive.
MTBers tend to have more trail days and do substantially more maintenance in my experience (especially prominent in CO). But, a lot of that is focused on making the trails better for mountain biking specifically…
I mean, he’s kind of got a point. But the phrasing is just aimed to be divisive.
Yeah, he lost me once he veered into bitchy little comments like “weird little utility belts” clearly just designed to generate clicks.
I can’t say I’ve noticed the claimed issue, but maybe it’s the case. My trail crews have mostly composed of hikers - neither runners or MTBers.
I think the speculation is correct that trail runners just don’t tend to have the local associations that cyclists have, so no central organizing force to gather people.
I don’t know. Trail running and fell running is huge here. Lots of groups. I think this article is clickbait and also probably American centric.
Regardless its divisive bullshit.
Certainly is click bait. Not sure if it’s meant to be divisive.
I have lived in Missoula and worked with MTB Missoula and the Montana Trail Crew/Jimmy.
My best guess is that the author came to visit and realized that there is a small town in Montana that has trails growing in every direction for all kinds of users. This has helped grow a healthy/active community.
It is something that can be replicated. And when it is done reasonably well, the whole system grows. Good for everyone.
Personally, I don’t think he did the best job of motivating people to build trail. But I’m no marketing expert.
I was running on some trails for 15 years and they were great until mountain bikers decided to ruin them. They made all these ridiculous little switchbacks and banks. They threw logs and branches on the old sections of trail. Saw an article in the local paper with them congratulating themselves on all their labor making the trails better for bikers (ruining them for runners).
In the article, they were complaining about something going on, I now forget what, that might impact the trail and were sore that they were not notified ahead of time. I commented on the website that they changed the trail without notifying anyone and they answered that the trail work had been approved by the park service (I don’t doubt it but that’s not “public” notice) and was publicly announced with (get this) a sign inside a nearby bike shop.
In the article they complain that runners ruin trails by going around puddles, but it’s the bikes that make the big ruts. And in my experience, bikers expect runners to get off the trail when they’re coming through. Don’t want to get grass stains on their tires apparently.
Truth be told, I did ride my mountain bike on those trails a few times, but I was fine with the old route. And don’t know why they couldn’t have left the old trail. It feels silly to run a zig-zag every 10 feet with the banked curves.
Sounds like it was a fall-line trail, which over time is not as sustainable and prone to erosion. Fall line trails are definitely more fun though… There’s even arguments within the mountain bike community that advocacy groups like IMBA are dumbing down the trails in to machine groomed, nearly paved finished trails. Considering if the rain we’ve been getting in some parts of the country is going to be the new normal, most fall-line trails are getting washed out like crazy.
Harsh but this article might make people volunteer more and maintain trails better. Thinking back, I have several friends into some serious trail running but have never any Facebook posts about volunteer work. It was all about the race and training.
I want to know: Did an Outside editor approach him with: “Hey, can you give us 1,500-2,00 words trashing trail-runners?” Or did he just submit as a semi-regular contributor?
Scanning his other “essays” he’s clearly a hack