Despite having done IM Lake Placid three times, I have no clue which of my bikes to use for the race this year.
I can use my beloved P3 which is setup with about a 79 degree seat angle, Zipp 303 wheels, and weighs in at about 17 pounds.
I could also use my Trek Y frame road bike. It is setup with standard road geometry, box rim wheels, and weighs in at about 20 pounds.
I can’t handle my Cervelo going down the Keene hill. I have to hit the brakes a lot, so I average only about 30 miles/hour on this section. Even doing that is white knuckle experience.
I think I could stay off the brakes on my Y frame, though I haven’t tried it. It handles way better.
In a one hour flat ride I can probably go almost 2 miles/hour faster on the Cervelo than the Trek. For longer distances I am sure the difference would be much less since I can’t stay in the aero position for hours on end. I don’t know whick I can climb on better. Hill exeriments in Florida are tough.
Short of making a trip up there with two bikes in the next couple of weeks to try it, what is a guy to do?
If Keene is 5 miles long (the steep part isn’t, but let’s take the whole thing), and you go 30 mph vs. 40 mph, it’s less than 6 minutes out of the whole 2-lap bike split. So, there isn’t much payoff to blasting down that hill anyway. In real life, you would only take about half of it slower.
I would be highly reluctant to ditch the P3. Didn’t you do a 12-hour on it? Sitting up straighter on a road bike and riding without your trusty disc will cost you more than 6 minutes.
What is it about the handling that bothers you on fast downhills? Navigating the curves? Wobbling at speed? Anyway to narrow the problem down a little? Are you riding a fork with factory stack-height and rake specs? Keeping weight back when descending?
With all due respect, amigo…if you hit the brakes on one bike, you’re probably going to do it on another one. Is there even the remotest chance that you’ve let that hill get into your head?
I don’t think the hill has gotten into my head. On my cross country jaunt it was pretty rare I hit the brakes on my Trek. The bike just handles. I don’t know why I can’t handle my Cervelo well. Probably user error.
I would hate to ditch the P3 for this race too. I do wonder though.
I am a 13 plus IM type of guy so far. 6.5 hours would be a great day for me on that course.
I’d also suggest using the P3. On the downhills sit farther back and stay relaxed and alert. If I can go dowhill at 50 mph at age 61, you can do Keene at 30 mph 'cause you still have mother’s milk in your mouth.
Except for true hill climbs, out of the 300+ races between tri, du and tt’s, i’ve yet to encounter a course where the tt bike was a liability.
it seems silly to worry about 6min out of 6+ hrs.
swap wheels as needed.
“I don’t know why I can’t handle my Cervelo well.”
I do. Because unless you have ultra fantastic bike handling skills like Slick, steep angle bikes handle like pigs. That’s why they don’t road race them. I don’t know the LP course but even slowing up a bit on the downhill twisty bits you’ll still likely be much better over all on the P3.
AJ, Buddy been a long time since you have sent me any e-mails…you know you should be on the Cervelo…we have both been on that course far to many times for you to even think about the Y Foil…
It is probably a little over 17 punds, but not much. I have 51 cm P3 with 650 wheels. The wheels are Zipp 303s. The front has a syntace base bar and C2 aero bars. Chris King headset. Ritchey stem. FSA compact cranks and speedplay pedals. Reynolds Ouzo Aero Pro fork.
The 303s save a lot of weight. I am going to pass on the disc this year for Lake Placid. I got pushed around too much in last year’s monsoon.
Yes, I know I should be on the Cervelo. You are right. After putting 1800 miles on the Trek in 16 days though, I am really happy with that bike. I hope I can get some training done in Lake Placid between now and then. I am hoping that the 10 or so pounds I lost and the extra bike miles this year will make a difference.
I assume you are firing up the Softride? My running is better. Maybe I can delay your inevitable lapping of me for a while this year.
practically the same–but my frame is 54cm w/ a HED aerobar, integrated headset, same fork, FSA team issue cranks, and i use HED3s.
did your chain line change when you switched to compact cranks? what’s your BB? when i switched cranks i could no longer use the 53x23 and 21. the 19 was still noisy. i switched to a 52 ring and the 19 is better now but the 21 and 23 are still unusable. any suggestions?
I bought the American Classic new ISIS bottom bracket. It’s very light, somethng like 140 grams. It seems to work fine, but I have no idea how reliable it is. Then again, I haven’t heard that anyone has a reliable ISIS BB.
I noticed no difference with the chain line. I have never been able to use heavy crossover gears on this bike. The smallest cog with the small chainring has always been unusable. The next smallest cog works, sort of. I do better with the big chainring. The largest cog is sort of usable with it.
Are you certain your rear wheel is in straght? You might want to check the dropout screws to verify alignment.
Your Hed 3s are more aero than my 303s, but they probably add over one ound of weight. If you can handle them though, the weight is no big deal.
Slick, steep angle bikes handle like pigs. That’s why they don’t road race them.
I would agree with this, if only it were true. I descended the canyon at WTH (9.5 miles of fast twisties) riding right on the wheel of all the roadies around me (including Slowman, an aggressive and experienced descender). I was on my 81 degree, long wheelbase QR while the other guys were on road bikes. Descending is a skill, and can be done fast “enough” on almost any bike.
I’m getting ready for LP the 1st time! I hope to me you in persom after all of these cyber encounters.
I too ride a P3 and although i haven’t done LP, yet, I have done 12 IMs including IMH, IMC, IME, etc, and you really need to ride the P3. I also live close to the mountains in NC and ride in big hills or mountains every weekend. Regardless of what others say, Cerveloguy ahem(!), the P3 descends great! I too have a fine road bike but really think the P3 does just as well.
The one thing I have found is that the P3 actually descends better when on the aero bars. The last downhill at IMC, as I understand, is much faster and technical than LP and I took the whole thing on the aero bars. It does take a bit of guts, but once doing it I was fine. I also climb better on the P3. The rear triangle is so stiff that I think it climbs just great. I have a climb here that I have been doing for 20 years and all my fastest times are on the P3.
Hey, if you see me wiped out on the side of the road just wave! Good luck!
David, what you don’t seem to understand is that I am devout coward. I can’t even think about doing the Keene hill that way.
I am pretty sure I will go with the P3. If I get up there before the race though, maybe I can rent a road bike and give that a try. It would be an interesting experiment, but probably only applicable to me.
should be be on the Tour showing those roadies how to descend the Alps while riding aerobars.
Well, that’s kinda not my point. I’m a quite average descender, yet my bike did not prevent me from hanging with the roadies. And, I was not in the aerobars for even a second. I descend twisty roads holding the cowhorns like we’re supposed to.
Although – I descended Keene hill in the aerobars, with my butt hanging off the back and the saddle on my navel (sort of an ‘on the fly’ superman position). With a disc, in the rain. 52 mph top speed.
