I suck at swimming. If I made it out of the water in less than 27 minutes this summer in an oly event, the course was short.
I did not swim competitively in the past and started swimming about 2 years ago during a time when I was recovering from a running injury. The injury was also how I got into triathlon. I did about 8 tris this year in my rookie season - all with wetsuit swims. If not for the wetsuit, the swim would have been even uglier.
I am wondering if one of the weekend workshops would be helpful for improving my performance. I have never received any formal coaching and am reluctant because some the posts on TI that I have reviewed here. I am not scared in the water and know how to swim, just not very well.
I know the alternatives - masters programs, local coach, etc; but am the type who would rather immerse myself into the matter rather than trying to line up coaches and swim dates. I train alone because of my schedule and do not like to rely on strict schedules.
If you’ve comfortably got the money, I’d go for the workshop. There are other options I’d personally go for before that, but you’re at a stage where it could be v. v. helpful to have a trained set of eyeballs looking over your stroke and then you seeing videotape of yourself to see if there are any easy technique changes you can make for “cheap” speed gains. TI just happens to be one well marketed umbrella under which that can happen.
You also seem to be mentioning that that you’re relying more than a bit on the wetsuit to keep your body in the right position in the water. That suggests you’ve got a balance problem going on, and IMO TI’s strongest point is getting people to fix those balance/streamline/hip position problems.
Just take their views on front quadrant swimming with a bit of a grain of salt. (Front quadrant is an effect, not a goal)
well, I’m sure if you went it would be beneficial in some way, but some of those principles are not good for long term–in other words, as you get better, some of their stuff will just hold you back…
what are your alternatives? can you hire a real swimmer to work with you?>that might be money better spent, and you could end up having more training over a longer period of time, rather than just a weekend.
i went to one in atlanta about 4 years ago and it was totally worth it. i i was also a terrible swimmer (1hr for 1/2 - no misprint). i’m still not great by any stretch but now i’m 36’ for i/2 and 1:14 for full im.
i joined a masters about a year after the workshop where they promptly rid me of the ti technique. now i just swim somewhere in between.
TI is great for beginners but if you are under 30 min for an olympic and have half way decent body position you would be better off working on propulsion, still it could help you. It’s kind of a crap-shoot.
TI is great for bad swimmers, such as myself (horrible, actually). Because of a TI workshop (and a lot of practice), I went from a 50 minute half-IM to 38 min. and two months later a 73 minute full IM. Still slow by slowtwitch standards, but I was thrilled with the improvement.
I do have some friends who are accomplished swimmers (e.g. Div. I collegiate and local swim coaches) and have assisted (out of water), but none are really tri oriented. I know that may sound stupid - - and anyway, most of them are sprinters. I would feel much more comfortable with a distance swimming advice in the water. Am I wrong?
Hey Jill, what other camps would you consider? I am looking for the missus as she wants to try a swim camp this winter. Her body position is pretty good (we participated in an Endless pool demo and got taped underwater)Its the propulsion she now needs to work on, or so it seems.
The last time I was at a swim camp, I was 14 years old and went to Indiana University. Cool thing was that Doc Councilman was still at IU then but that’s another story. I’m not really familiar with what’s out there now or who’s running swimming master’s camps these days.
Just take their views on front quadrant swimming with a bit of a grain of salt. (Front quadrant is an effect, not a goal)
Hey Jill
Could you elaborate on that last line please? I like the front quadrant stuff because it seems to make sense to me. Do you mean it is the effect of good timing?
I personally think TI has a lot to offer. It aids body position, hip rotation, stroke efficiency, hydronamics, bilateral breathing…
Later you can work on an improved catch, high elbow, vertical forearm… which are what I’m concentrating on now. That is a pretty easy addition that can be incorporated into other drills.
For me, the best part is that I can finish the swim at least as fast as before, but with WAY less effort. (I need all the help I can get on the bike.)
I do have some friends who are accomplished swimmers (e.g. Div. I collegiate and local swim coaches) and have assisted (out of water), but none are really tri oriented. I know that may sound stupid - - and anyway, most of them are sprinters. I would feel much more comfortable with a distance swimming advice in the water. Am I wrong?
You’re right - this is wrongheaded. You have access to a real live swim coach and/or some former Div I swimmers but you don’t want to seek their help because they were sprinters? That’s like saying you want some help with your golf game, and you have a former touring pro as a buddy but you want to go to the local driving range for golf lessons because your buddy’s short game was only so-so by pro golfing standards. There are nuances between sprinting and distance swimming at the Div I level but anyone who can swim anything at the Div I level has boatloads of useful advice to offer you both in regards to stroke technique and training suggestions.
Leaving aside the issue of whether TI is worth it or not, you have a great resourse available to you. Talk one of your swimmer buddies into letting you take them out for dinner or a few beers on the condition they will accompany you to the pool first and watch you swim for 20 minutes. Spend the dinner of a few drinks getting their comments and suggestions. You’ll be paying about 10x as much to get 1/10 the advice from a TI clinic and your buddies are probably more qualified than the TI instructor you’ll end up with.
What I got out of my Masters coach last week was that by FQS or “catch up” drill swimming you flatten out rather than staying balanced on your side. I have been told this by another swim coach (who is tri specific) who wanted to see me pulling back when my recovering hand was passing my head. I have found from doing alot of catch up drills as well as the gliding from TI that my stroke rate is too low and I am flat more than I should be. I am now trying to unlearn this and to increase my stroke rate I start my catch/pull right away as my recovering hand is getting ready to enter the water.
I find this also helps with my overall roll from side to side as the delayed reaction of the recovering hand entering snaps you on to the other side as you finish the pull/outsweep on the other arm. Hope this makes sense.
Unless you specifically set out to swim freestyle “kayak style”* (rigidly holding arms directly opposite of each other at all times) like Janet Evans or Michael Klim, you’re going to eventually turn into a front quadrant swimmer. Your recovery arm is encountering less resistance than your pulling arm, so it’s going to be normally moving quicker than your arm in the water. Left arm finishes the stroke and very very quickly moves through the recovery phase at the same time right arm is moving from catch to mid-stroke- the time where your arm is moving at the slowest rate of rotation. The perfectly normal result to this is that left arm is now entering the water at the same time right arm has finished the slowest movement and is at that time roughly perpendicular to the body, and both arms are briefly in front quadrant position before right arm enters the “whip it around quickly phase” of the pull while left arm is now in the slow movement part of the stroke.
It’s the description of what will develop naturally for most people. Over-exagerrating the glide in an attempt to make the stroke look more front quadrant is only going to lead to a dead spot in your strokewhere you get a brief “kick or sink” moment and we want to be minimizing kicking here.
*And I wouldn’t recommend kayak style freestyle because it seems to be harder on the shoulders than other types of free
My experience is that when I do swim golf or DPS sets I glide too long, and go slow, but my stroke count is slow. But when I am swimming well (for me, anyways!) the FQ thing is what happens.