Top Marathon runners getting slower: Dublin Marathon

Triathlon Forum
1

Thought this was a fascinating article. I’m sure there’s plenty to argue with but Kiernan was a top runner and coach.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/dublin-marathon-why-are-we-running-out-of-irish-winners-1.3271566

Some quotes:
‘Gym culture’ and strength and conditioning of little use to runners

Pat Hooper talked about doing a 21-mile training run on a Friday, 24 miles on the Saturday, and 27 miles on the Sunday: “Not many runners could hack that,” he said. “And still can’t. And that’s one of the reasons why the standard has dropped. They’re not prepared to do the hard training.”

In 1985, for example, 10 times as many British runners ran under 2:15 for the marathon than in 2015.

2

Except that 8 of the 10 fastest marathons have been run in the last three years and the other two were run in 2008 and 2011.

3

How many of those top times were set by non-African runners? I think that’s the main focus of the article.

4

Yeah, that’s what I was thinking when I saw logella’s post. Looking at Kipchoge I don’t think ‘gym culture’ is a thing in Kenya.

5

I’m simply responding to the initial premise that top marathoners are getting slower. They are not.

6

Also new crackdowns of doping make times slow for a bit till a new super drug is found.

7

Did you read the article?

8

I’m simply responding to the initial premise that top marathoners are getting slower. They are not.

Very true.

But I’d say that the tier 2 marathon-runners in europe are getting slower. Also - the «elite» amateurs are also getting slower.

Comparing some long-lasting races in scandinavia, the top 50 of popular amatuer races were significantly faster in the 80s than today.

9

I think that the main reason is that the other sports like soccer, hockey, tennis and so on started paying better while the distance running did not (well, not in proportion). If I am a young athlete with good track times but at the same time a short at the MLB - guess what I would choose (nevermind the pressure from the coaches and family).

10

I did. It’s crap. It conflates amateurs getting slower with elites getting slower. These are two separate topics and really should be separated.

Amateurs are getting slower for a number of reasons, including the increasing number of them (which the article mentions in an almost-throwaway line) and the endemic issues that are causing normal people to be less fit decade over decade, whatever you believe those are (it’s a flame-war-inducing topic I don’t want to open now, but I think we can all agree it’s happening, whatever the cause).

Irish elites are getting slower for the same reason America isn’t as competitive in athletics (as opposed to what the author and the coach quoted derisively call “team sports”): team sports have started paying incredibly better over the past few decades. Those with natural gifts of course will pursue whatever pays them best for those gifts, unless they *really *like marathons.

On top of that, it mostly focuses on one marathon, which has had a course change, for the data feeding its premise. The premise is probably still true, but it’s not a very convincing article, and reeks of “kids these days”.

11

Good insight. Thanks.

12

Did you read the article?

I almost stopped when an article about marathons misstated the actual distance.

Whether it’s 26.2 miles, 42.1km or 138,336 feet there are no shortcuts,
While in real world…26.2 miles (so far, so good), 41.195 km (c’mon you really can round that up, but I’ll let it slide), 138,435 feet (OK, the km number wasn’t a rounding error).

13

there used to be only marathons when it came to long endurance events. that talent is spread much more widely these days.

14

Did you read the article?

I almost stopped when an article about marathons misstated the actual distance.

Whether it’s 26.2 miles, 42.1km or 138,336 feet there are no shortcuts,
While in real world…26.2 miles (so far, so good), 41.195 km (c’mon you really can round that up, but I’ll let it slide), 138,435 feet (OK, the km number wasn’t a rounding error).

It’s actually 42.195 kilometers.

15

Did you read the article?

I almost stopped when an article about marathons misstated the actual distance.

Whether it’s 26.2 miles, 42.1km or 138,336 feet there are no shortcuts,
While in real world…26.2 miles (so far, so good), 41.195 km (c’mon you really can round that up, but I’ll let it slide), 138,435 feet (OK, the km number wasn’t a rounding error).

It’s actually 42.195 kilometers.

Of course it is. Right you are…mistakes abound! Apparently, I’m qualified to be a magazine editor at Irishtimes.

16

Irish elites are getting slower for the same reason America isn’t as competitive in athletics (as opposed to what the author and the coach quoted derisively call “team sports”): team sports have started paying incredibly better over the past few decades. Those with natural gifts of course will pursue whatever pays them best for those gifts, unless they *really *like marathons.

i’m not sure how powerful this explanation is. i mean, if you’ve got the anatomy and physiology to be, say, a sub-2:15 marathoner, how many other sports are you actually built to be elite at? not many team sports are rewarding the 5’8", 135 pound whippet with a lot of slow-twitch fiber and great economy. there’s simply not a rich career waiting in basketball or football or ice hockey for those guys.

-mike

17

Agreed; there’s so much more out there nowadays than just distance running. If it weren’t for Triathlon, I’d probably have run a bunch of open Marathons by now.

18

Irish elites are getting slower for the same reason America isn’t as competitive in athletics (as opposed to what the author and the coach quoted derisively call “team sports”): team sports have started paying incredibly better over the past few decades. Those with natural gifts of course will pursue whatever pays them best for those gifts, unless they *really *like marathons.

i’m not sure how powerful this explanation is. i mean, if you’ve got the anatomy and physiology to be, say, a sub-2:15 marathoner, how many other sports are you actually built to be elite at? not many team sports are rewarding the 5’8", 135 pound whippet with a lot of slow-twitch fiber and great economy. there’s simply not a rich career waiting in basketball or football or ice hockey for those guys.

-mike

Then your beef is that the article is bad in another way, because it complains about exactly this effect.