I know this is a little bit of a silly exercise, so many factors play into hitting a certain time in a race swim … but, just for giggles and a general guideline in training, what do you think my interval swims should look like? The swim is definitely my weakest event. This is my first IM distance race and it’s been a long time since my last HIM.
My goal is to swim 1:10. I know that comes out to 1:39/100 yds. What I really want to know is what should my target splits be for interval swims … say, 100, 200 and 400 yd repeats. Obviously, I need to be able to swim repeats at faster than 1:39 if I expect to hold that pace for 2.4mi. I can currently hold 1:30/100 yds x 10 swimming on the 2:30. How much faster do I need to get?
Is there a McMillan-like calculator for triathlon?
I know this is a little bit of a silly exercise, so many factors play into hitting a certain time in a race swim … but, just for giggles and a general guideline in training, what do you think my interval swims should look like? The swim is definitely my weakest event. This is my first IM distance race and it’s been a long time since my last HIM.
My goal is to swim 1:10. I know that comes out to 1:39/100 yds. What I really want to know is what should my target splits be for interval swims … say, 100, 200 and 400 yd repeats. Obviously, I need to be able to swim repeats at faster than 1:39 if I expect to hold that pace for 2.4mi. I can currently hold 1:30/100 yds x 10 swimming on the 2:30. How much faster do I need to get?
Is there a McMillan-like calculator for triathlon?
Can you do the same 1:30 for 10x100 except leaving on 1:45 instead of 2:30? That’s a -massive- rest interval. When you can do that, you can probably do your 1:10.
I also like 4x800 on 12:00/11:30 for Ironman training. I am a 1hr Ironman swimmer.
DJHollingsworth Really that something you build to. Doing 100’s is a tool that is going to get you their. Start by 10x100 build to 20x100 and make them faster. Lots of other variables in a Ironman swim time but don’t lack in swim fitness for that is a sure way to start the off rough. Good luck
Dan I’d suggest workin on dropping your rest interval…a ton. 60 seconds rest on 100’s isn’t giving you much info to go on reliably. Just as a pacing exercise try that 100 set swimming at a pace you feel would allow you to do all 10 with 10 seconds rest. On this first try let your brain and your body tell you what that pace should be knowing you have 9 more to do with 10 seconds rest. When you can do 10 x 100 on 5 seconds rest you definitely know what to expect race day. I’m not saying it’s a magic number, but the best distance swimmers I now do their threshold sets on these kinds of rest: 100’s on 10, 200’s on 20, 500’s on 40 seconds rest and that is the longest threshold interval I see this group do…one is a mid 50’s IM swimmer. These are people who get out of the water right when they expect to get it week after week.
Dan I’d suggest workin on dropping your rest interval…a ton. 60 seconds rest on 100’s isn’t giving you much info to go on reliably. Just as a pacing exercise try that 100 set swimming at a pace you feel would allow you to do all 10 with 10 seconds rest. On this first try let your brain and your body tell you what that pace should be knowing you have 9 more to do with 10 seconds rest. When you can do 10 x 100 on 5 seconds rest you definitely know what to expect race day. I’m not saying it’s a magic number, but the best distance swimmers I now do their threshold sets on these kinds of rest: 100’s on 10, 200’s on 20, 500’s on 40 seconds rest and that is the longest threshold interval I see this group do…one is a mid 50’s IM swimmer. These are people who get out of the water right when they expect to get it week after week.
Good luck!
These RI’s (rest intervals) are a great indicator.
You’re going to get a lot of different responses on this question. For good reason too. There’s no single correct answer but a lot of correct answers. Longer sets that you cruise. Short sets that you haul ass. You’ve already done the math so now you have to do the training to the point where your math seems comfortable. Don’t forget that if your goal is a 70 min x 2.4 swim in an actual race, you should be able to hold pool times faster. You don’t want your IM race day swim to be an all-out effort. Holding 1:39/ 100 scy needs to be comfortable, not challenging.
P.S. Get to the point where your getting 5-10 seconds rest per 100, not 60 sec per 100. If you are doing 10x100s on the 1:30 swim time, you should be able to leave on the 1:40 and make the set with no problem. Or 200s swim on 3:00 and leave on the 3:20. Etc.
I can currently hold 1:30/100 yds x 10 swimming on the 2:30.
That’s a fine set for improving your 100 / 200 speed, but far too much rest for a distance focused program. Starting now, drop that interval down to 1:55 (you will be a bit slower than those 1:30’s, depending on your fitness 1:35-1:40’s) and hold best average for all of them. Do that set a couple times a week, as you get comfortable with it dropping your off time so you are getting 10-15 secs rest between efforts and can even pace the whole thing. (Even pacing means no more than a 2 seconds spread between the first and last one).
Also, 200’s are a nice distance for intervals, and on occasion throw in 400’s / 800’s. I personally don’t like doing 400’s regularly, because there is less feedback on pacing, but they are important to do sometimes.
Lastly, don’t base your training on what you HOPE to do. Do a test set and base your core training on what you can do now. train, test, adjust, train, test, adjust…
Almost like this guy tigerpaws knows what he is talking about these days. But like others said I don’t think there is ONE way to get down to that pace. Mix in some sets where there is decent rest on a good effort but there should always be sets where you fail. If you are doing 10x whatever there is nothing wrong with coming in on only 1-2 secs rest or even missing the interval at the end.
Almost like this guy tigerpaws knows what he is talking about these days. But like others said I don’t think there is ONE way to get down to that pace. Mix in some sets where there is decent rest on a good effort but there should always be sets where you fail. If you are doing 10x whatever there is nothing wrong with coming in on only 1-2 secs rest or even missing the interval at the end.
How’d you like that text I sent you this morning? figured i’d start your day off proper.
Thanks all. I know my rest interval is too long now. It’s still early and I’m just getting back into it. I’m trying to do workouts that allow me to go relatively hard with success without being demoralizing. Just trying to get a gauge on what I need to get it down to. I wasn’t crushed after the 10x100 on 2:30, but definitely felt like I had done work.
I haven’t done 100’s on a 10-15 second rest in a really, really long time … I know I need to get there, eventually, but I am not looking forward to it. How many times can I puke in a YMCA pool before they tell me not to come back again?
My suggestion is to start off as you are, but if you are making it through those sets without cramping or runing out of steam, it’s time to drop the rest interval down. Don’t worry about a long term target, instead I’d suggest figuring out your CSS http://www.swimsmooth.com/training.html and use that as your guide. This will do a couple of things, it will boost your aerobic fitness and also help you sort out your pacing.
One other comment, the last thing you really need is to be fixated on a specific swim time, especially in an IM. like you said, too many variables, and a minute or 2 in the swim really doesn’t matter all that much. You really just need to be able to get through it comfortably, with reasonable speed. Try to think of the swim as simply a confirmation of your current fitness, whatever that may be, rather than a target.
My opinion is that swim meets are much better for target setting, I suggest that you join a masters team and enter a few meets over the winter.
My suggestion is to start off as you are, but if you are making it through those sets without cramping or runing out of steam, it’s time to drop the rest interval down. Don’t worry about a long term target, instead I’d suggest figuring out your CSS http://www.swimsmooth.com/training.html and use that as your guide. This will do a couple of things, it will boost your aerobic fitness and also help you sort out your pacing.
One other comment, the last thing you really need is to be fixated on a specific swim time, especially in an IM. like you said, too many variables, and a minute or 2 in the swim really doesn’t matter all that much. You really just need to be able to get through it comfortably, with reasonable speed. Try to think of the swim as simply a confirmation of your current fitness, whatever that may be, rather than a target.
My opinion is that swim meets are much better for target setting, I suggest that you join a masters team and enter a few meets over the winter.
^^^^ This
Just like everything else, you just need to build as much fitness as possible, then learn what a comfortable pace should be for the distance of the race. For an IM, that’s means it’s a relaxed pace. Trying to chase 1-2 minutes in the swim can cost you 10 minutes on the bike and 20-30 minutes on the run.
If your swimming slower than a 1:10, you probably need to improve mainly on your technique as much as fitness. There are probably very basic things your not doing well.
I haven’t done 100’s on a 10-15 second rest in a really, really long time … I know I need to get there, eventually, but I am not looking forward to it. How many times can I puke in a YMCA pool before they tell me not to come back again?
This post goes to show that you need to slow down on your regular sets. 10-15 sec rest per 100 should not be puking pace. In fact, 60 seconds rest per 100 should be closer to a puking pace than 10-15.
Think of it like this:
10-15 seconds rest per 100 should be like your tempo run (only marginally hard)
60 seconds rest per 100 should be like speed work
Jumping in here, as I finally broke 1:10 in AZ. I swim my 100s at about 1:32-1:34 on the 1:45. I do 5x100. I usually throw this in after a 500 or 1000 at 1:35-1:38/100, then go back to distance.
The biggest gains you will see are from learning how to swim in an IM or any OWS. Sighting and position(drafting) are 2 things you cannot learn in a pool. Also being comfortable with the contact.
I hated swimming, so I did EVERY OWS I could find.