Looking forward to 2004 my choices have come down to doing either IM Austria or Challenge Roth. I will travel with my family (spouse and 2 girls 12 and 15) and make it into a vacation and travel Europe (I will enter Europe in Amsterdam and exit through Rome more than likely), so where I race is determined by:
the race and race support
enthousiasm of the local population (eg. on the bike course)
accomodations
Day trips from the venue for the family whilst I “rest” pre race
Would appreciate any input from y’all per slowtwitch or privately at: hgjonker@aol.com
Henk, the only question you need to ask yourself is M-dot or not!
Now, I realise that you wanted more detail, hence the categories in your post but I think that if you are honest you know the answers yourself. Roth is legendary for its crowd support, but when I did Austria in 2000, the bike course was well supported in the villages and great throughout the run. Both are in central Europe and so if you get on the internet you will have more culture than you can shake a stick at.
Which ever you chose will be a great race and a trip full of memories, especially if you exit after Rome. Just don’t take the Italians up on their famous phrase of "See Rome and Die!"
Roth will be the cheaper race but the $200 difference won’t be a significant part of the family expense.
Roth is very enthusiastically supported in and out of town(the only sober people you will see will be racing!) but transportation back to the car at the end really sucks(but with your supporters you should be OK).
You’ll probably have to stay in Nurembourg for Roth, and its international fame is only based on the WW2 war trials.There’s probably more to see in Austria.
I’ve never done the Austrian race but loved roth when I did it in 2001 (the last year as an M-dot) and would recommend it as a great destination. My wife and I stayed on a farm outside of Roth about 8km right near the Rothsea and it was a fantastic location close to the swim start and part of the bike course. There are lots of easy day trips (we went to Innsbruck, Nordlingen (sp?) and a few other interesting places. The crowds are fantastic and the race organization was first rate. I’d love to go back and do the race again when it wasn’t raining so hard
This July I watched IM Austria and QC Roth on TV. The spectators were much better in Roth.
Felix
If you want to feel like Lance climbing Alpe d’Huez you should do Roth. You’ll have to climb the “Solarer Berg” but you w’ont see this hill as you ride through thousands of people enthusiastically supporting you. It will make you cry, I’m not kidding here.
First, your English rocks, as someone who has been living in France and learning French from scratch (never studied it at school) I am definitely impressed. I am always more than happy for anyone to point out my French mistakes, so hopefully you’ll appreciate the following:
The correct word you are looking for is “unlesss”. That is “UNLESS you a want to do a WTC race, do Roth”.
Usage of “except” is a little different. You could say “Do Roth, EXCEPT IF you want to do a WTC race”, but it’s not so clear when you use “except if”.
I know my explanation isn’t that clear, but its the best I can do quickly so I hope it helps.
PS - I still knew what you meant
PPS - I’m looking at my IM race schedule for next year. I really want to to IM Switzerland, but it clashes with the TdF. I’m thinking of IM Germany, because the timing is good, but my friend is not convinced because he’s totally unexcited about Frankfurt for a race venue. Can anyone comment on this race?
I’ve none a lot of IMs including Roth 5 times. IMHO, Roth is the absolute best! In I may go again in '04. I personally don’t think the M dot thing means a thing - one way or the other (I have nothing against M dot).
To answer your questions: 1) Race support is tied with the best I have seen (with IMC), 2) the local enthusiasm is absolutely unmatched anywhere inn the Tri world!! 3) Roth is a small town, so accomodations can be difficult. Contrary to the other post, I find Nurenberg as well as the many other small towns fantastic and filled with history. I have done a home stay each of my trips. I don’t know how available this is but they take in my whole family. They have also been here to stay with us. 4) many great day trips w/in an hour in any direction.
Luckily, Roth seems to have survived without it’s WTC moniker. All being well this race may evolve into one of those classic races on the wish list such as Alcatraz, Wildflower, etc…
I guess in choice if you want the WTC tag you go elsewhere. I f you’ve done a few IM’s and fancy a classic I guess it’s this one…
Everyone that I know who has traveled from the United States to do Roth has just raved about it. Amy White did it this year and wrote a series of articles which can be found at http://www.challengelive.com/.
Camel, I have to say that IM Germany is the best IM I have done to date, that is with Austria and France as comparison. I agree with your friend, I don’t think that Frankfurt is a good base for the race as it is just a conference city. That said the race was fantstic and the support from the crowd the best I have experienced, if the local newspaper is correct there were 700,000 people cheering around the bike course!
France was picturesque but crowds and support were restricated to the lake and two villages.
Holiday elsewhere in Germany and hit Frankfurt on the last day before registration, a have a fantastic race and leave to continue holidaying the morning after. Thats my vote.
Frankfurt could be a nice race. But drafting is rampant (it was in 2002, thought IMF was bad…should see Frankfurt 2002…)
An other MAJOR problem is that the lake does not have enough parking spots, so you end up walking 1mi or more in the morning before the race to get to the lake, then after the race, you have to go back to the lake about 7.5mi from Frankfurt…there are shuttles but there aren’t enough for everyone…
I know many who had to ride back to the lake AFTER the race with there bags (wetsuits, shoes etc…) on rather busy roads.
The cobble section is a pain in the ass if you weight less than 160lbs and can’t glu your wheels to the ground a la flanders way. They are not thin cobbles but real ones…if you put your spares in your bottle holder behind the seat, tape it well…so it does not jump out on the cobbles (you won’t hear it with the noise)…It happened to me in 2002 (and yes I flatted later)…
So Roth over Frankfurt, ANYTIME!
They must have done a lot of work on the organisation at Frankfurt after 2002 to get the race improved for 2003, when I did it.
There were shuttles to the lake for the start, and everything was shipped to the finish line and therefore, no requirement to return to the lake later.
I weighed 145lbs race day and had no problem getting up the cobbles (don’t forget that you need to stay seated or you will get no traction!) and didn’t lose anything out of my Profile aqua rack.
There will be a problem with drafting at any race that people want to draft at, its not just a problem at Frankfurt and IMF, you gotta do it yourself or shout at those drafting you.
I am German and did both races Roth and Frankfurt and watched Austria and Switzerland. Roth is my absolute favourite race, people are so supportive, enthusiastic you can not believe. I always have the impression to come home to a family. Frankfurt is very anonymous to me and the problems with the lake and transportation are really problematic. Austria is a very nice and scenic race, what I don’t like is that the course isn’t measured right since years. People there are kind and if I would want to qualify I would do it there. IM Switzerland is expensive, the only people there are relatives from athletes, which makes the atmosphere rather poor. I will be back to Roth for several reasons. I feel that for the money I paid in Frankfurt and Roth I got 10 times more in Roth, despite having paid nearly half of the price. What is unmatched are the spectators in Roth, free alcohol free beer at the finishline J and the stadium that they build up.
To blacksheep, Nuremberg for me isn’t just famous because of the trials, that would be the same saying Chicago is famous for the Mafia J
Nuremberg is first of all famous because of the X-mas market (largest worldwide, with partner markets in Zurich and Chicago), which was opened last Friday, with about 2 million visitors, the Nuremberg sausages, ginger bread, old and scenic city (middle ages), the biggest toy fare worldwide and many more. I lived there when I was a child and still love that city. At christmas times Nuremberg or New York are the cities for me.
