Can anyone please offer me some advice on how to run slow. I have recently constructed my base training running programme from the excellent advice in Barry’s run program posts. I went out and did a 10k time trial and used the online McMillan pace calculator to find my pace zones. What I have learnt is that whilst I had a good idea what a tempo or a steady-state pace was, almost all my bulk running was too fast and sat just a little bit outside my basic steady pace though it felt ‘easy’ to me in comparison, though I acknowledge my HR was a little higher than I thought it should be.
I have a Polar RS400 with a foot pod and in the past I was more than happy to simply cover it up, forget about it and enjoy the run and download and look at the data afterwards. At the moment I am constantly looking at the pace and conciously having to back off, only to get back into the run for a few minutes only to look down and realsise I have quickened up again, in many ways this is spoiling my enjoyment of running which is something I really look forwards to. I know this running pace is a learnt behaviour and will not be easy to break, any advice is welcome as I am sure this is a common issue, thanks.
This is the hardest part for some runners is going slow so you’re not alone. One way that might help is on your easy days run with a slower group or friend and go there pace. Focus on your form and that usually will also help slow you down a bit.
usually its the other way round. people who start using the mcmillan or jack daniels running calculators have to speed up their ez runs.
if you dont look at your watch, what by how much are you running too fast? if you can go out and do an 8miler in steady-state, than probably your 10k time trial doesn´t provide an exact measurment of your current fitness. i mean, i could hardly go out and do a 10k time trial on my own. i could, but it wouldn´t be near my 10k time of a race.
either you do a race (5k, 10k, whatever) to determine your real training paces, or you adjust them by feel. over the next few days, try and do some workouts with the paces described, and see how you feel. are the paces easyily attainable? then adjust the training zones. barely manageable? you´ve got work to do.
I have come back to training only in the past 2 years. For the first 12 months I was simply cycling as this was the safest way to loose a lot of weight, and I had got up to 600km a week at a good pace and so was reasonably fit. I then decided to get back into Triathlon and at first my running was pretty poor, but I built it up to long runs around 25km in the summer and a weekly volume of about 50km, my legs took a bit of stick but it felt like a swop of cardio work from one discipline to the other. I was able to run my long runs at 5:30 per km pace up to and above half marathon. My easy runs nearly everything else I did up to 15km was all around 5:00, 5:05 pace.
I have turned to Barry’s plan because I know I need to safely increase my weekly volume as I want to get competitve in my age group in the long run at long course events, and the best way to do this is running easy. My 10k time trial was 44:40 which means my easy runs are all at least 15 to 20 seconds a km too quick even at the lower end of the scale. I have the HR data from the 10k and I was going really hard which does not surprise me,as I have always been able to train as hard as I race suspect it is due to my diagnosed autism. One of the issues may be that a lot of my running has been very one paced, in building volume I hadn’t done much quick running and the time trial was the first time I had really pushed it on. I would be surprised without any specific speed or tempo work if I could go quicker in a race, and this might be the issue, but I would have thought 5:00km pace as easy running on the McMillan would be byond my ability level for some time yet.
Can anyone please offer me some advice on how to run slow. I have recently constructed my base training running programme from the excellent advice in Barry’s run program posts. I went out and did a 10k time trial and used the online McMillan pace calculator to find my pace zones. What I have learnt is that whilst I had a good idea what a tempo or a steady-state pace was, almost all my bulk running was too fast and sat just a little bit outside my basic steady pace though it felt ‘easy’ to me in comparison, though I acknowledge my HR was a little higher than I thought it should be.
I have a Polar RS400 with a foot pod and in the past I was more than happy to simply cover it up, forget about it and enjoy the run and download and look at the data afterwards. At the moment I am constantly looking at the pace and conciously having to back off, only to get back into the run for a few minutes only to look down and realsise I have quickened up again, in many ways this is spoiling my enjoyment of running which is something I really look forwards to. I know this running pace is a learnt behaviour and will not be easy to break, any advice is welcome as I am sure this is a common issue, thanks.
I remember having that same problem when I started (and I’m a slow runner to begin with). I also remembered reading somewhere someone’s coach telling them that if they couldn’t hold the pace to walk to slow down the pace. I didn’t want to walk so I just tried really hard to bring the speed down, but yeah, when you get in that zen state it is hard to break it. I will say, however, it is well worth it (coming off some 9 months of the BarryP plan)
my ‘technique’ for this gets mixed reviews in my house. for me to run slower, i run with my wife. she runs a ~9min mile for her runs so that works out for me.
the ‘problem’ is a lot of times she can see that i’m struggeling to run that pace and she constantly is telling me to ‘go ahead and run’…it’s like telling a fat kid that’s on a diet to ‘go ahead and eat the ice cream’.
if i don’t have a pacer with me, my ‘ez’ runs end up being only about 25-30secs slower than my tempo runs… yeah, LOADS of gray zone training for me.
I was able to run my long runs at 5:30 per km pace up to and above half marathon. My easy runs nearly everything else I did up to 15km was all around 5:00, 5:05 pace.
My 10k time trial was 44:40 which means my easy runs are all at least 15 to 20 seconds a km too quick even at the lower end of the scale.
if i put in your numbers in mcmillan 5:17 is the speedy end of the easy runs. if i were you, i would stick to these paces, at least for a while, integrate one workout per week (i would do a tempo run, my favorite is mile repeats with 1’ recovery, should be around 7:15 for you) and retest in a few weeks. and if possible do a race. even if you think that you gave it your all in your 10k effort, i guess there is still something left for race day, even if its only 2-3 seconds per km.
When I started running I was really concious about how I looked to other people out there even if they were walking a dog and so I think I was/am running too fast to make up for anxiety about my running. Now that I have simply got better I know had had to conciously break through a mental barrier to stop thinking of myself as a ‘non runner’ but instead as an ‘improving runner’, I havn’t adapted. The issue might be in that I have zoned into that percieved exertion feeling which was well described as that ‘grey zone’.
I have thought about the walking method as a form of punishment. The problem was yesterday here in the UK was a super crisp really clear morning with a good solid frost and I went out early for the first time with a cap and light gloves. I was not to sure whether to go for a my long run or not but to see how I felt. As it was I was so into the run through the woods along trails and down and along the main river near me I had real problems in turning round on my out and back route, I knew I was over my distance by a good kilometer or so on my long run but still had to go on to the end of the next section. When I got back I had been running a bit too fast, best laid plans and all that! I know it is a discipline issue, I went over distance again today.
usually its the other way round. people who start using the mcmillan or jack daniels running calculators have to speed up their ez runs.
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the vast majority of runners pace their easy runs too hard and their hard runs too easy
If its an EZ day it should be EASY, to help recover for the HARD days (so you can actually go hard enough)
I don’t think that is true. I think, especially for newer runners, the vast majority run their E runs too fast.
i think you’re right on that point. But i wouldn´t call him a beginner. obviously he ran for a year, and a 44:40 10k in training might not be fast, but miles away from beginner.
I am right there with you. I just started the BarryP type plan last week and needed to slow down my runs by about 40 seconds per mile. It is difficult. As someone else said, run with slower people. I look at my watch a lot, which I want to stop doing and just learn what the pace feels like. I also went over my distances a few time last week. If you still feel good though I think small amounts over your total volume for the week should not be an issue.
Daniels ahs admitted that the paces for “easy” runs in his first ed are too hard for most. he wants them to be easy, and if you are struggling to maintain the easy pace then you are going too hard no matter what the pace.
Even amongst the top runners some say easy is 6 minutes/miles some say 9.
Where is the thread for making defizzed coke??? (Sorry, couldn’t resist)
True story! my wife was sick sunday after her first ever 13.1 race. like puking sick. i ‘made’ her some flat coke to settle her stomach (hey’s it’s what we had). she later asked me to show her how i made it. i didn’t take the moment to poke fun, i just showed her…
Daniels ahs admitted that the paces for “easy” runs in his first ed are too hard for most. he wants them to be easy, and if you are struggling to maintain the easy pace then you are going too hard no matter what the pace.
Even amongst the top runners some say easy is 6 minutes/miles some say 9.
Daniels easy pace in this case (44:40) is even slower than McMillans. If Daniels ez pace were too hard for most, how can he run even faster than that?
When i started running according to Daniels, the ez pace was definitely faster than what my ez pace used to be. After a few weeks i felt comfortable.
In the TO’s case i think he is capable of more than a 44:40, and thus he doesn´t need to slow down that much. i mean if he is only capable of ~4:30/k for 10k, but at the same time runs 15k ez in 5:00/k pace.
Thanks for the replies so far they are really appreciated. The background to the question was kind of based around the fact that I have only recently found the stuff by BarryP in the last couple of weeks. I started running at around Easter time this year and have scheduled my training plan around Joe Friel and Gordon Byrn’s excellent book ‘Going Long’. I was in a Pre Base period up to my Early Base starting this week. I used last week as a test week to try and set benchmarks from which to train for my Base Period hence finding Barry’s posts was a real insight and so I put a lot down to the time trial to determine my pace zones for the Base Period. For interest I am 46 years of age and still need to loose around 5kg to 8kg to get to anything like a racing weight so did not expect anything much from the time trial other than to go as close to race pace as I thought I could manage, in fact I was quite pleased with it, as I had no real idea how fast or slow I could run.
In hindsight do you think it would have been or still is a good idea to find a 10k race near me and see if my time is that much better. Whilst I am not that bothered about how fast I can or can’t run at present, I am concerned that I manage to sustainably build up a good foundation for my triathlon racing at long course. My sense from Barry’s writtings was that being in this ‘grey’ zone simply means I could be/am overcooking it a bit, as such am not properly developing energy systems, am in no mans land, and not maximising my chances of building good millage.
Another excellent post recently about swimming sweet spot volume got me thinking that I could relate to that in respect to my bike discipline which if I am consistent around 450 to 500km a week I really seem to find my legs and things get a lot more consistent. It was a similar desire to get to a place where my running volume was solid that I was striving for, and as a result wanting to find a natural and sustainable pace from which to build. It is easier on the bike as I can use my FTP to get a good feel for HR and gearing and take this from my trainer environment out onto the road. Swimming is another matter I simply have to improve my stroke for the time being. I know that this might not be an exact science and as someone who is autistic numbers are always black and white things to me as such I want to know I am at ‘the’ right pace not somewhere near it if you get where I am coming from.