Its my first time trial today. 14 miles, nice conditions no wind. I show up with my P3 and Zipp 404,and regular bike shorts and a tight skin tight aero top. I place third and almost puke at the finish line (had to throw that in :).
Here is my question.
The two guys ahead of me had…disc wheel, aero helmet, skin suit and shoe covers. I lost by 1 minute. Just curious is you think these things would add up to a minute in a 30 minute race. By the way, I averaged 26.1mph number two ave 26.4 and leader won in 26.8 MPH.
I think Khai is right, but then again if you believe what the helmet manufacturers say about aero helmets and wind tunnel test, then maybe you’d be closer to second. Thing is, I don’t believe the aero helmet tests. The disk might have helped 0.2-0.3 mph. I still think you’d be third.
If this had been a race double the distance, and you lost by one minute, perhaps you would have been within a few seconds one way or the other of first with the equipment changes you mentioned.
I doubt you’d have won, I sure wish my 909 wheelset, aero helmet and time trial suit just made the minutes melt away, but I think it more looks and feels fast then actually is that much faster. I’d say still third, but that’s still a great finish.
Shoe covers, an aero helmet, and a disc could give you a minute.
You also may be able to improve your handlebar width and your drop, both of which could make for some savings. Having not seen your picture, I can’t say for certain, but unless you look like Zabriskie, you could probably have a faster position.
There is also the question as to how disciplined you were about remaining in your position. Did you look around a lot? Did you sit up here and there? Wiggle?
I think there are almost always a couple minutes per 40K to be gained by better shifting, a smarter line, better positioning, better equipment, etc, so one minute per 14 miles is definitely more than reasonable.
And “ALMOST” only counts with horseshoes and hand-grenades. Almost puked is the same as saying “I almost went as hard as I could have.”
No, I definately went as hard as I could have. Could I have held a better line and stayed more aero??? Sure, but that is from experience I guess. Thanks for the responses though. The whole time trial thing was a fun break from triathlons. ITs great to not have to run after crossing the line on the bike.
In short, don’t look at equipment. The person who won was the best rider that day. This is mostly who was the strongest, but there are other things that were mentioned, such as line through corners, turnaround (assuming it was an out-and-back), whether you can hold your position, etc. You can’t look at your “lack” of equipment and count potential seconds you lost. It’s all about optimizing what you can- that’s why we eat right and train and buy nice equipment. There are plenty of people who have great equipment, but don’t optimize other facets of their performance. All these claims of time-savings-over-a-40k-at-speed-XYZ are assuming that you’ve optimized everything else. Sometimes you simply have a bad day. What good are Zipp wheels when you’re mentally weak? What I’m really trying to say is I hate when people look back and second guess or try to blame factors other than themselves. Yes, we sometimes suffer bad luck (punctures etc), but on the whole, we finish where we deserve to finish. 3rd place is by no means anything to be ashamed of- it’s a great result. All I’m saying is that there are probably other things aside from your wheel choice that could change the outcome of the race without costing you a lot of money.
p.s. Part of my rant is actually me being angry at myself- sometimes I want to sell/TSR all my equipment and buy a very basic aluminum frame with Shimano 105 and go kick ass at races. No offense to those of you who have 105. I tend to preach to others that it’s not about the equipment, but crap-- I love nice stuff too!
Shoe covers really make little measurable difference, likely a few seconds, aero helmet is worth maybe a few more (seconds) depending on which model and how it fits on your head, and whether it decreases your frontal area, the disc may be worth a handful of seconds over the 404s over 20k. All told, not worth 60 secs. www.timetrial.org
I hear a lot of certitude here, but not many facts. Here are some facts:
My Cda went from .2337 to .2172 just by switching from one aero helmet to another aero helmet. At 290 watts, that translates to a increase in speed from 26.91 mph to 27.53 mph. That’s just from one aero helmet to another aero helmet only! I don’t feel like giving all my tunnel data away, but I can tell you, you could easily gain that much again with the other changes.
This stuff varies greatly from one person to another, based on position &etc. But, I can tell you with certainty that I, myself, could easily lose a minute by parting with this stuff.
Out of curiosity, since we are clearly both “drag geeks,” do you think the CdA reduction was a result of the helmet’s shape independently being faster or the helmet integrating better with your position?
And, more generally, do you believe there is a “fastest” helmet overall, a fastest helmet per rider, or some sort of combination of the two (a couple equally fast helmets solo, each of which works well with a different type of riding position).
Congrats to Jens for his ride at the Oregon State TT
(Or, IOW, listen to this guy, he knows of what he speaks…)
1 412 Jens Heycke Mas Men 40-44 0:54:26
2 119 Mick Walsh Mas Men 40-44 First Rate Mortgage
0:54:51
3 160 Erik Huston Mas Men 40-44 Hutch’s Bend 0:55:40
4 316 Todd Rosier Mas Men 40-44 Huntair 0:57:38
5 978 Robert Huff Mas Men 40-44 Half Fast Velo 0:58:28
6 K64 Jake VanderZanden Mas Men 40-44 Fred Meyer
Racing 0:59:11
7 326 Ronny Brigham Mas Men 40-44 NRR-Bad Boyz Racing
1:00:06
8 438 Paul Qualtere-Burcher Mas Men 40-44 EWEB Windpower
1:00:14
9 599 John Jackson Mas Men 40-44 Huntair 1:00:33
10 168 Chris Alling Mas Men 40-44 Columbia River Velo
Out of curiosity, since we are clearly both “drag geeks,” do you think the CdA reduction was a result of the helmet’s shape independently being faster or the helmet integrating better with your position?
And, more generally, do you believe there is a “fastest” helmet overall, a fastest helmet per rider, or some sort of combination of the two (a couple equally fast helmets solo, each of which works well with a different type of riding position).
I would guess that there is a fastest helmet per rider, but that’s something I don’t have enough data on, so it’s just a guess. Some further data are:
The Allied Aerospace guys, who have seen many of the top pros in the tunnel (Armstrong, Leipheimer, et al), thought that the helmet was a particularly good fit for my position
A junior, who tested right after me, did a comparison between a conventional helmet and one just like mine, and had an even bigger improvement than I did – Even though the AA guys thought that the helmet wasn’t fitting into his back quite as well mine.
I’m not sure you can draw anything conclusive from this, except that it’s wrong to categorically claim that someone can’t gain a minute with an aero helmet and other aero goodies, since at least 2 people I know of can practically do it with the helmet alone. I think Gordo’s principal wind tunnel improvement was from changing the helmet and head position.
Gordo did post some good wind tunnel data with aero helmets. It seem to show that it was dependant on head position. Bjorn showed no change with an aero helmet since his head is well below his back.
I put on an aero helmet after a race I met Jens at (he put quite a few minutes into me) and I did not believe they could be worth a darn, until I rode with one. Felt faster, yes, did I want to believe that, no. Turning your head though would slow you down, you can really feel the wind against the side.
How was your mental game during the race. I have had days I really felt on it during the race and did really well. Then I have days that I felt so-so and did crappy.
Knowing the course helps a bit too if you are looking for the last few seconds.
Just to add to my post, I agree with Jens that aero helmet performance is and individual thing that can best be tested in a wind tunnel. Some riders it makes little difference, some it a makes a notable difference.