For those who work on increasing their FTP, do you continue threshold workouts throughout the racing season or move to more SST workouts or go higher to VO2 max workouts (Z5)? I would like to keep increasing on the bike so the obvious answer would be to keep doing them but as my running increases throughout the week am I going to wipe myself out too much to race as hard as possible? Any comments appreciated!
You need to work all components of fitness. You’ll need both types of workouts to maximize the improvements.
If I were given only 3 bike workouts per week…
1 threshold
1 VO2
1 long (2.5+ hours) with multiple 45-50 minute 1/2 IM pace sets.
Closing in on a race you can keep up the work, but shorten the sets/intervals, particularly during race week. The last thing you want to do is all easy spinning the week before a race. A couple of 5 minute VO2 intervals is not going to destroy race capacity…but it will help you maintain sharp sensations in the legs.
Sorry, I’ll ask a few dumb questions here I’ve always wanted to: when we refer to a threshold workout, is that similar/the same to a tempo workout?
And what would be a VO2 workout?
Can you give me some examples of those workouts?
No it would not be the same as a tempo workout. Tempos are classified as Zone 3 workouts, usually in the 76-90% of FTP. Good roady bike rides are good tempos++. Zone 4 workouts are in the 91-105% of your FTP. 4X9s, 2X20s, 1X45, 1X60 are workout examples. Zone 5 or VO2 workouts are in the 106-120% of your FTP. Short 3-5 min rep. will do you well here.
Sorry, I’ll ask a few dumb questions here I’ve always wanted to: when we refer to a threshold workout, is that similar/the same to a tempo workout?
And what would be a VO2 workout?
Can you give me some examples of those workouts?
I like to follow Coggan’s format for power zones and I think of a tempo ride (or bouts therein) as Zone 3, threshold as Zone 4, and VO2 max as Zone 5. Some examples of workouts could be:
Tempo: Warm up, 2x45 min at Half Ironman (or slightly higher) power, cooldown
Threshold: Warm up, 2x20 min or 3x15 min at 88-94% FT. Or more specifically geared towards threshold, 5x10 min at 95-100% FT.
VO2 Max: Warm Up, 5x5 min at 105%+ building through the season to 8 reps.
Hope this helps. There are myriad other variations if you are creative with your riding.
Tempo: Warm up, 2x45 min at Half Ironman (or slightly higher) power, cooldown
Threshold: Warm up, 2x20 min or 3x15 min at 88-94% FT. Or more specifically geared towards threshold, 5x10 min at 95-100% FT.
VO2 Max: Warm Up, 5x5 min at 105%+ building through the season to 8 reps.
Your targets may be what books say (and what u experience), not sure. However, my VO2 max intervals, up to 4 minutes long, are generally 120% of FTP (300+ vs. 250ish). My 2 x 20’ are 105-110% of what I consider FTP. And my 1 hour triathlon efforts are still at least 10% below FTP. That’s my real life data. Not sure how others compare.
Tempo: Warm up, 2x45 min at Half Ironman (or slightly higher) power, cooldown
Threshold: Warm up, 2x20 min or 3x15 min at 88-94% FT. Or more specifically geared towards threshold, 5x10 min at 95-100% FT.
VO2 Max: Warm Up, 5x5 min at 105%+ building through the season to 8 reps.
Your targets may be what books say (and what u experience), not sure. However, my VO2 max intervals, up to 4 minutes long, are generally 120% of FTP (300+ vs. 250ish). My 2 x 20’ are 105-110% of what I consider FTP. And my 1 hour triathlon efforts are still at least 10% below FTP. That’s my real life data. Not sure how others compare.
Then your FTP is higher than you think.
And he’s riding his 40k bike legs too easy.
How long is the rest interval in the threshold and VO2 workouts? Is it equal to the work interval?
I’ve been doing this workout once a week:
wu
5’ @ FTP
5’ easy
5’ @ FTP
10 min @ 80% of FTP
repeat 4x
this workout takes 2 hours and gets really hard at the end. I wonder if I should increase the FTP intervals to 10-20’ as you posted.
How long is the rest interval in the threshold and VO2 workouts? Is it equal to the work interval?
I’ve been doing this workout once a week:
wu
5’ @ FTP
5’ easy
5’ @ FTP
10 min @ 80% of FTP
repeat 4x
this workout takes 2 hours and gets really hard at the end. I wonder if I should increase the FTP intervals to 10-20’ as you posted.
You could extend the reps, but I’d extend them incrementally and work up over a period of months. Looking at your workout, I’d be inclined to make the 5’ reps 10’ keeping a 5’ easy spin and then I’d increase the 10’ rep to 20’ and increase the intensity more in the range of 85-90%. If you fatigue early on the 20’ rep you could always drop the intensity to 80% but run a longer rep (if you can), like 30’. I’d only run it twice or maybe three times through to start and see how you feel. I actually like your workout, might try it in the next 2 weeks. I’m neither a coach nor pro, actually no different than most athletes here who has done his fair share of studying power to up his game a bit, so take my feedback with a grain of salt. It is not necessarily based on exact science, only what has worked for me in the past. Vary or modify for your best results.
In Reply ToTempo: Warm up, 2x45 min at Half Ironman (or slightly higher) power, cooldown
Threshold: Warm up, 2x20 min or 3x15 min at 88-94% FT. Or more specifically geared towards threshold, 5x10 min at 95-100% FT.
VO2 Max: Warm Up, 5x5 min at 105%+ building through the season to 8 reps.
Your targets may be what books say (and what u experience), not sure. However, my VO2 max intervals, up to 4 minutes long, are generally 120% of FTP (300+ vs. 250ish). My 2 x 20’ are 105-110% of what I consider FTP. And my 1 hour triathlon efforts are still at least 10% below FTP. That’s my real life data. Not sure how others compare.
Then your FTP is higher than you think.
Not so sure FTP is off, or that I ride too easily. There may be some differences in measurement of intervals on computrainer vs. powertap for real world.
I don’t have any difficulty making mph on race day, just watts. For instance, did 59 minutes at Memphis in May last year on 222/216W, 23.6 mph (bike is short). Fairly typical to what I’ve seen in other races of similar distance. The effort level is there.
The bottom line is that while all the power data is good to monitor training and racing progress, athletes shouldn’t simply rely on a rigid set of numbers to guide their intensity in either arena, imo.
In Reply ToTempo: Warm up, 2x45 min at Half Ironman (or slightly higher) power, cooldown
Threshold: Warm up, 2x20 min or 3x15 min at 88-94% FT. Or more specifically geared towards threshold, 5x10 min at 95-100% FT.
VO2 Max: Warm Up, 5x5 min at 105%+ building through the season to 8 reps.
Your targets may be what books say (and what u experience), not sure. However, my VO2 max intervals, up to 4 minutes long, are generally 120% of FTP (300+ vs. 250ish). My 2 x 20’ are 105-110% of what I consider FTP. And my 1 hour triathlon efforts are still at least 10% below FTP. That’s my real life data. Not sure how others compare.
Then your FTP is higher than you think.
Not so sure FTP is off, or that I ride too easily. There may be some differences in measurement of intervals on computrainer vs. powertap for real world.
I don’t have any difficulty making mph on race day, just watts. For instance, did 59 minutes at Memphis in May last year on 222/216W, 23.6 mph (bike is short). Fairly typical to what I’ve seen in other races of similar distance. The effort level is there.
The bottom line is that while all the power data is good to monitor training and racing progress, athletes shouldn’t simply rely on a rigid set of numbers to guide their intensity in either arena, imo.
Who says they are?
The levels are simply a description. Workouts should be guided by what you have done recently and what you are looking to achieve.
Providing a description of a workout based on power numbers that are falsely inflated on one device compared to an FTP number estimated from a different power measuring device is misleading. IOW your 2x20 workouts really are more likely much closer to your real FTP than you have suggested.
Don’t want to hijack the thread but my question is related. I am thinking about getting a power meter to help guide my training as i very quickly found out that I suck on the bike.
What type of workout (VO2, threshold tempo) should you be starting with when starting out doing workouts, as opposed to just going and riding. I realize that all 3 are going to be done and needed at some point. In what might be considered normal periodization of the training cycle, what would come 1st?
Thanks
Don’t want to hijack the thread but my question is related. I am thinking about getting a power meter to help guide my training as i very quickly found out that I suck on the bike.
What type of workout (VO2, threshold tempo) should you be starting with when starting out doing workouts, as opposed to just going and riding. I realize that all 3 are going to be done and needed at some point. In what might be considered normal periodization of the training cycle, what would come 1st?
Thanks
That really depends on what your goals are, how much time you’ve got ('til your events and for the bike each week), what your fitness (power) tests tell you, what other training you are doing and how much cycle training you have behind you (recently and historically).
But if you are not sure, then a few weeks of general riding, including testing, followed by a block of solid endurance, tempo and threshold work would be a reasonable start. If, how and when you do specific VO2 Max development work really depends on a few things such as those items listed above. Nevertheless, there is no harm in doing a bit of higher end work here and there. Can get that simply by riding a hilly route for instance on an endurance ride day.
Tempo: Warm up, 2x45 min at Half Ironman (or slightly higher) power, cooldown
Threshold: Warm up, 2x20 min or 3x15 min at 88-94% FT. Or more specifically geared towards threshold, 5x10 min at 95-100% FT.
VO2 Max: Warm Up, 5x5 min at 105%+ building through the season to 8 reps.
Your targets may be what books say (and what u experience), not sure. However, my VO2 max intervals, up to 4 minutes long, are generally 120% of FTP (300+ vs. 250ish). My 2 x 20’ are 105-110% of what I consider FTP. And my 1 hour triathlon efforts are still at least 10% below FTP. That’s my real life data. Not sure how others compare.
Then your FTP is higher than you think.
I think that you are right.
For those who work on increasing their FTP, do you continue threshold workouts throughout the racing season or move to more SST workouts or go higher to VO2 max workouts (Z5)? I would like to keep increasing on the bike so the obvious answer would be to keep doing them but as my running increases throughout the week am I going to wipe myself out too much to race as hard as possible? Any comments appreciated!
I don’t think there’s a general answer to this question that fits for most people out there. I believe it really depends on a the individual. You made no mention as to what distance you’re training for so I’ll make some assumptions (ie IM training).
Schedule will dictate or you will have to adjust accordingly. For example, I personally like to get in around 12 - 14hrs/week on the bike during race prep so I can’t handle structured L4 workouts or I’d fry myself. I would have to drop my volume which I don’t really want to do because I feel I get greater benefit for IM by doing lots of L2 and L3 during this period. You have to think about the necessary volume to address race-specific needs. Increasing your FTP gets you pretty damn far but it’s my observation that those who tend to hold up really well after mile 80 of the bike are the ones who put in lots of miles in their race position during race prep. Obviously you also need to consider how it impacts your run too. We all tend to run on tired legs a bit so don’t jeopardize the run just because you’re a little paranoid about your bike. Running on really tired legs a lot does a great job of ingraining poor form. Not to mention, will have you mentally, if not physically burnt come race day.
Again, assuming you’re talking about IM then I’d stay away from L5 during race prep. It’s too risky and it’s not at all race specific either.
If you look at your training more holistically then consider your intended focus for general prep vs race-specific prep. I’m not saying that structured L4 doesn’t have a place during race-specific prep but it certainly has a place during general prep. The answer to these type of questions usually get addressed by having a solid training plan in place.
Thanks, Chris