This life and an after life

The Coffee Shop
1

“How can anybody be happy if there is no heaven? How can anybody be happy with this life?”

This is a paraphrase of something I heard on NPR today. This kind of thinking is what gets me in the end about religion. My question is why is this life not enough? Why is this world not amazing enough? Why aren’t the experience of the here and now not so mind blowing that the idea of a heaven is not needed?

Everyday I ride the bus home and look at the mountains. You can see how big they are. You can see the strata that makes up the mountains and the erosion shows that at one point these mountains where flat plains and incredible forces shoved millions of tons of rock into a 90 degree angle. Then you look at the life that makes their home on the mountains. You watch the clouds get caught by the tops of the mountains. I look at this every day and only want to learn more about it. All of it.

Some of you may have noticed that while I am not a total goth that there is some unhappiness about me. I have a dark edge to my otherwise loving and outgoing personality. This is not caused by not having a link with some kind of super being or a belief that the world is a horrible place. It comes from the fact that I, as of right now, am not equipped to fully engaged in this world. My failing memory and brain fog is disconnecting me from this incredible life. I don’t want nor care to go to some magic land of perfection I want this life and this planet. If pressed to picture a heaven I will say, “This is the place. This Earth. This life.”

The trials and victories of this world are wonderful. The effort it takes to be a complete person is incredibly fulfilling. It offends me that all of this beauty around us is not seen as IT but instead we develop stories of an imaginary land where we will be happy. Why not be happy with now? Why not realize that the world is enough? Why not shed the the boring ideas of real happiness is and find out what makes you happy? Why can we not find joy in the fight and in the struggle? Why do we want what is easy not what is hard?

In my non-belief in an after life I know I have one shot and one shot only. There is an end. There is no second chance. What I do now matters most. Yes I do see darkness in my life. I do curse my brain and it’s frighting limitations that don’t even allow it to equal an average brain but what am I going to do with this malfunctioning mass of gray matter is what matters.

In the end it is not a prize I seek it is the fight to make the best of what I got that makes my life worth living. So I say turn away from candy land and get your hands dirty now. Look not at a future time be look at right now.

2

Is there some reason you can’t enjoy this life and look forward to the after-life (if you are so inclined)?

3

You could but I don’t think it is likely. To get to the after life you must believe things not of this Earth. You must “not be of this world”.

4

What you are basically saying is that if you are a Christian you can’t have any fun and enjoy life.

5

Not at all. What I am saying is that for some, quite a few some but not all, are worried about the next place and don’t full see this place. I am talking about “Wow what a beautiful day!” levels here I am talking about “Holy hell Hana! This is pure freakin’ amazing!”
The desire to think of a place that is better shows disappointment with this place and a desire to get to the next place.

6

Recognizing a better place doesn’t equate to disappointment with this place. Disappointment denotes expectations not met. I don’t think anyone has the expectation that this life should be as good as Heaven, so acknowledging that Heaven is better doesn’t mean you’re disappointed with this life.

I can be perfectly happy (not disappointed) with a steak at Outback, and still acknowledge that I could get a better steak at Peter Luger.

7

I can see very clearly I am explaining myself badly. I have thought beyond my ability to write.

8

The desire to think of a place that is better shows disappointment with this place and a desire to get to the next place.

That is my life in a nut shell. I missed Hale-Bopp last time, and frankly, I have no one to blame but myself. I was just not paying attention. The best I can tell is that the next departure will be in approximatley 4,200 years. Obviously, I cannot make it that long, but I betting that my cryogenically frozen head will make it! So, I live my current life in unhappy destitute poverty, saving every last cent so I can pay for the procedure. The more frugal I am, the sooner I can leave.

Hallelujah, Brother!

9

“What you are basically saying is that if you are a Christian you can’t have any fun and enjoy life.”

Actually, that sounds more like the attitude of the person to whom Tibbs was responding, who queried: “How can anybody be happy if there is no heaven?” That very query seems to suggest some fundamental dissatisfaction with life as we currently know it, a dissatisfaction that can only be overcome be consoling oneself with the thought that we won’t have to put up with it forever because there’s another better life down the road.

If people were really having fun and enjoying life, it would probably never occur to them to ask such a question as “how can anybody be happy if there is no heaven?” Instead, they would be asking: “How can anybody not be happy with this?”

10

“I can see very clearly I am explaining myself badly. I have thought beyond my ability to write.”

I thought you expressed yourself very nicely.

So maybe I’m misunderstanding you now? :wink:

11

Sounds a bit new-agey. :stuck_out_tongue:

However, I agree with you. Sort of reminds me of “Way of the Peaceful Warrior”.

12

You better enjoy this life because you do realize you’re going to hell now don’t you?

~Matt

13

**In my non-belief in an after life I know I have one shot and one shot only. **

So, you’re living this life and taking your best shot … because mountains are beautiful? One shot at what? One shot at nothing. You’re living an inconsequential life by your own worldview. If you really believed what you’re saying, then take the advice of Nietzsche and build your home on Mount Vesuvius and stop driving by it and admiring it for its beauty from afar.

**There is an end. **

OK. So, there is an end. No judgment at that end. So, what’s to stop anyone from living completely for their own gain? What’s the purpose? If the end is just the end and nothing (i.e., no balancing; no final judgment), then what possible constraints on the system?

Tell your children to be good because if they’re good, then nothing. And, if they’re not good, then nothing. If they are bad and nobody notices but they still increase their own , then at least they can enjoy that until the end, when nothing happens.

**There is no second chance. What I do now matters most. **

Wrong. It matter nothing at all. You said so yourself … “there is an end.” You can’t say that there is an end and claim that something matters. That’s complete balderdash. Why would it matter if there is an end without any final weighing or judgment?

The worldview you are expressing is completely post-modernistic: purposes with no Purpose; goals with no Goal; truths with no Truth.

Mr. Tibbs, what one Purpose; Goal or Truth guides you so that by it you can judge all the sub-purposes, goals or truths? From whence comes this one Purpose, Goal or Truth? Is it transcendent? If it’s merely personal and arbitrary, then how can you judge it? How can you judge another person who chooses a contra Purpose, Goal or Truth, especially one that might include eating your children for lunch?

**In the end it is not a prize I seek it is the fight to make the best of what I got that makes my life worth living. **

A worthless fight without any consequences for winning or losing or cheating. What’s the use? What are you fighting for?

**So I say turn away from candy land and get your hands dirty now. **

This is your argument to get dirty now? Get dirty because in the end there’s nothing. Very unconvincing.

Look not at a future time be look at right now.

Why? “Look not at the future time but look at the now . If now has no consequences, then what good is now, or then?

14

…
Everyday I ride the bus home and look at the mountains. You can see how big they are. You can see the strata that makes up the mountains and the erosion shows that at one point these mountains where flat plains and incredible forces shoved millions of tons of rock into a 90 degree angle. Then you look at the life that makes their home on the mountains. You watch the clouds get caught by the tops of the mountains. I look at this every day and only want to learn more about it. All of it.
…

Outstanding writing. Pointing out the obvious majesty on this planet is always trickier than it seems.

15

**The worldview you are expressing is completely post-modernistic: purposes with no Purpose; goals with no Goal; truths with no Truth. **

Sounds more he’s trying to reach satori to me.

16

“You’re living an inconsequential life by your own worldview.”

I have no idea how you have reached that conclusion. My blabbering is about how there is a point to the here and now, it’s being here now.

“So, what’s to stop anyone from living completely for their own gain?”

Nothing. From what I observe and experience the promise of heaven and the threat of hell is not preventing all the religious people I know from making #1 #1. I look at the world and everyone is living for their own gain so you need to explain how everyone is living for everyone else.

“What’s the purpose?”

For me it’s learning.

“If the end is just the end and nothing (i.e., no balancing; no final judgment), then what possible constraints on the system?”

Others. We put constraints on each other. So what constraints are you talking about?

"Tell your children to be good because if they’re good, then nothing. And, if they’re not good, then nothing. If they are bad and nobody notices but they still increase their own , then at least they can enjoy that until the end, when nothing happens. "

Huh? I really don’t understand what you are saying but I don’t see anything wrong with living a good life even if there is no afterlife.

“You can’t say that there is an end and claim that something matters.”

Yes I can. Things matter to me if I say so.

“That’s complete balderdash. Why would it matter if there is an end without any final weighing or judgment?”

Because I don’t need the acceptance of a violent psychotic incredibly rotten god.

"The worldview you are expressing is completely post-modernistic: purposes with no Purpose; goals with no Goal; truths with no Truth. "

Ok.

“Mr. Tibbs, what one Purpose; Goal or Truth guides you so that by it you can judge all the sub-purposes, goals or truths?”

Knowledge. I might have answered wrong but I don’t understand.

"From whence comes this one Purpose, Goal or Truth? "

My little mind.

"Is it transcendent? If it’s merely personal and arbitrary, then how can you judge it? How can you judge another person who chooses a contra Purpose, Goal or Truth, especially one that might include eating your children for lunch? "

I judge because I can. Eating my children for lunch? What the hell are you talking about?

"A worthless fight without any consequences for winning or losing or cheating. What’s the use? What are you fighting for? "

Knowledge.

“This is your argument to get dirty now? Get dirty because in the end there’s nothing.”

Why worry about the end. Getting dirty now makes now worth it.

" Very unconvincing."

I’m convinced.

"If now has no consequences, then what good is now, or then? "

Because I am alive now.

17

“You better enjoy this life because you do realize you’re going to hell now don’t you?”

From what I gather all the fun people are going to hell. Also Satan is into a lot of things I find fun so odds are he will just want to party.

18

I’m frequently reminded of a quote I read somewhere, when reading your stuff: Believe those who seek the truth; doubt those who find it.

You’re a good soul, Tibbs. People enjoy your posts, I think, because they reflect conditions that exist in all of us to one extent or another, expressed with good humor, sincerity, and absolutely no pretense. It’s rare and refreshing.

19

All the truths you seek can be contained in one song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHQ_aTjXObs

You’re welcome.

20

"How can anybody be happy if there is no heaven? "

If heaven is full with the same self righteous holier than thou bible thumping hypocritical idiots that I’ve have had to put up with during this life then hell is definately going to be a much better place. If atheists, agnostics, free thinkers and liberals are destined for hell then sign me up.