These results could have nothing to do with my powercranks

Triathlon Forum
1

Okay, here is the latest results of my race today. This is after averaging 6.19 hours of training per week. This is after being on the PC’s for about 3 weeks. This race was the 4 bridges Half Marathon in Folsom, Ca. A decent hilling course.

Last year I finished the race in 1:43:18 for a 7:53 pace

Today, I completed the exact same course in 1:34:26 for a 7:12 pace. The thing I am the most proud of that for being 48.58 years old, my age grade rating was 69.02% Darn, I missed 70%. I am going to hope that on my next Half Marathon on a flatter course, maybe I can finally break 70% once.

So, who knows what has made me faster, but there is the data. Not bad again for so little training that I can get in. :o)

Dave

2

I don’t know if it was the PCs or not, but great race! Nice improvement!

Dave, what do you do? You’ve mentioned several times that you don’t train very much. Do you have some high powered 90 hour per week job? (Not that that is the only reason for not training a ton.)

-C

3

I am an engineer with HP.

My typical daily schedule is get up at 5:40. Leave home at 6:15. Get to work at 7. Leave at 3:00 and get home at 3:45.

I then try to train from 4 to 5 or so. Eat dinner at 5:30. Read and respond to Email from 6 pm. Do DDR with the wife at 7 pm. Wife and I hit the hot tub at 7:45. Hit the sack at 8:30, read for half an hour, and turn the light off at 9. Then starts the same the next morning. Sounds like ground hog day.

I do 100% resting 2 days before any event. And, doing 19 tris, and another 6 run races this year so far, you can see I do not do killer weekend workouts since I love to race for my workouts. I NEVER go as hard in practice as a race!.

Now, I have to fit in all the yard work, car repairs, family activities, my video projects, etc within the few hours I am at home. So, I do not see how any person who has a full life can get in much more training per week unless they can live on less sleep, which I can not.

Now, I am working on trying to get in a few extra minutes per day since I do believe I am seeing a relationship between training hours, and race results. But, both from time and health (Meaning, lack of injury), I do not see being able to go above 10 hours a week average. It would not be worth the things I would have to give up.

So, the one reason I post these things is I try to encourage others either with my age, or with limited hours that one can compete in races and do well, and still have a full life. It does not have to be either or. (I probably do have to thank my parents with som decent genes, just wish they were better, so I could train less. :o) )

Dave

4

Congratulations,

A pretty typical running improvement claim made by new PC’ers, although i am sure, as has been pointed out many times here, these improvements have nothing to do with the PC’s per se, just a bunch of wishful thinking or placebo effect or anything but the PC’s. As often as you race and the improvements you have seen already i suspect you will set a PR in every race you do in which you have a time.

I look forward to hearing when you start to see the cycling improvement. That should be coming in the next few weeks.

5

Dave, congrats on a great race. Now if you can only jack up your training to 10-12 hours per week by doing a few longer bike sessions on Saturday and Sunday, then you’ll really see some upside next year.

6

Frank, as you know, I can not prove anything, but, let me tell you, I just do not see why someone would spend so much time on a bike, and not get the benefits that PC’s may give during the same training time.

I will be doing run races for the next 5 months or so. Just signed up for the CIM marathon on Dec 4. in Sacramento. I hope the weather is decent since it is a fast course. Going to try and qualify for Boston. I need a 3:35 when I hit 50.

I probably will not ride a bike outside for many months. I just have no desire to fight the elements or cars, and I really am enjoying using the PC’s, and seeing the results I am seeing!

Thanks for a great product. I sure keep telling everyone about them and asking them to come to my house and try them on my velotron. I just had my friend come over and he used the velotron with the PC’s locked. I forgot to decrease the crank arms so he even did them with 200mm crank arms.

Dave

7

I am really really going to try and kick the bike sessions up!! I would love to get to 2 hours trainer rides, but even with the DVD’s I am watching, once I hit an hour, it gets tough!! I am also trying to get in some longer slower cross country runs also since if I do another IM next year, I need some help towards the end of the run.

What I was doing the last few weeks is I would get up at 5, and spin for 30 minutes. I then was still on schedule to get home at 4 and spin for an hour. I have gotten lazy again though and put the alarm back to 5:40.

One neat thing is by using the racing log that I got and modified from Ray Britt, I can see in real time exactly how many hours I am doing, paces, etc. Once I get caught up, it will be easy to input times in each night I exercised.

Assuming I can get the time in, and not get hurt, I currently plan on doing the same 19 tri races next year. This will be a great A/B compare of pre and post PC’s. I still struggle on what it would be like to ride PC’s on the road. I am just nervous on what one does when a person hit hills and wants to stand. Easy on fixed cranks.

Dave

8

I am bummed. My daughter just reminded me that last year I crashed on my bike in Late June, and was out of action for 2 months with the broken collar bone. So, she told me that this year I have been exercising all season long without getting hurt. So, seems fair that some large percentage of my time improvement may be from just being in better shape. Oh well, is not going to change my commitment on the PC’s to do may a/b compare for next season.

Dave :o(

10

I am just nervous on what one does when a person hit hills and wants to stand. Easy on fixed cranks.

Dave

Two comments, easy on PC’s also, once you have learned. Most are ready to learn after about 3 weeks. Just put it on a high load and unweight on the handlebars to help you keep control of your foot speed and you should be able to do it now, if you try.

Second, you will have so much more power seated that you will need to come out of the saddle much less in the future so don’t worry about it if you have trouble right now.

11

Dave,

Have you ever thought of moving your schedule around a bit. Here are my thoughts. If you are an engineer for HP, you may (and I can’t say for sure) have the flex to start work anytime from 7 to 9am. If you can, go for the 9 am start.

Get up at 5 am and then either start running or biking by 5:45 am. That gives you 2:30 worth of training time if you wrap up by 8:15. You could start off with an easy 45-60 min run daily and then bang off another hour on the PC’s on your velotron. Then you can head to work for 9. You presented your schedule, and I don’t see why you can’t actually get more training in than 1 hour per day. Seriously, if you have the engine to do a 1:34 marathon at age 48, you could really gain a lot by ramping up your base training this winter.

There are all kinds of silver bullets floating around, but there is no substitute for miles in the saddle or in your running shoes, especially if you plan an Ironman next year. While the 6 hour training week can be used by the exceptionally gifted like Mr. Larsen and yourself to fake it though shorter events, it will bite the majority at the full Ironman distance (including Mr Larsen himself…Ray Britt excluded…)

Dev

12

I have no idea what any of this means. I just made the statement since I have been accused of doing more training for my IM race than I said I did, and the real data show less. I have been told the PC’s could not have helped me at all in my running. So, I just decided to use the words “large percentage” since I assume folks will say that 100% of my improvements came from a full season of 6 hours a week of training, and the PC’s after 3 weeks could have had no impact.

As I posted, I love to try new tools in life. Some work, and can be proven. Some work, but can not be proven. Some just fail. But, if one does not try new things in life, then one may be missing on exciting changes.

As an engineer, it drives me nuts when I can not find specific things that I can prove did this or that. But, I can also use my head with logic and tell how things feel. And these is no doubt that my running since I have started using the PC’s feels stronger. Can I prove? Nope. But has been said by someone on ST, the mind can have impacts on a performance also. So, I make no judgements, I just put the data down. I need every help I can get. And, if it is a choice of getting a new bike, or getting things like PC’s to help me improve the quality of riding time that I can fit in, I would much rather have a stronger engine.

I purchased the PC’s because of comments from Dev and others who were very positive about them helping their performance. It just seems logical that it sure does not hurt. And compared to what things in our sport costs, the PC are a bargin since no amount of money can buy me more time.

Dave

14

Dev, thanks for the comments. Yes, I am very proud of a 1:34:26 half marathon at the age of 48.583333 (At my age, I count the days o) )

Now, if I had just done 1:33, I would have gotten my 70% age grading goal. Flat course next time.

And yes I can see that if I can adjust my schedule, maybe I can fit more time in. I remember I spent one summer water skiing at 7 each morning on the lake I live on before I went to work. Problem was I found I was real tired at work, and since they pay the bills, I did not feel comfortable not being able to give 100% at work. Also, the traffic later in the morning, and definitley coming back later at night is MUCH worse, which just adds more time to my commute.

But, under the spirit of being smarter as you suggest, I now on my run days change at work, and stop on the way home to do my long runs, rather than get home, change, and drive back out to the high school… This gives me at least another free 30 minutes during the day.

So, I really want to try and ramp up my base training this winter and see what happens next year. I sure am not getting any younger, and better results sure can become addictive. I am just going to be sure I do not lose perspective though. Look at poor chip, one freak accident and all that training may be down the tubes for now.

Again, thanks for the ideas, I can use as much brain storming as possible on how to get more time.

Dave

15

Let’s put it this way. Pretty well everyone has a $1000 investment in race wheels. To me the PC’s are the “next” big “optional” investment that one should consider if you want to improve performance. While I can’t vouch for Frank’s specific power improvement claims what I do know is that in the 3 years since I started riding PC’s I have generally riding better. My running seemed to feel better initially, but the past year has not been a banner run year. Part of it has to do with some additional muscle mass in the quads and lats from way to much XC skiing, a nagging knee injury from a high speed ski crash 2 years ago and the rest from less focus on run training.

I’d really like to get my runs faster again (often sub 90 min in a half Ironman), but it seems to me, that as a triathlete, there is a constant battle between your flat out speed in each of the sports Get faster in the swim and carry extra upper body weight that slows you down on the run Get faster on the bike and carry extra quad and glute mass that slows you down on the run Get totally ripped for the run, but lose upper body strength for the swim and quad mass for the bike

Over the past couple of years, I have gradually gone over ot the idea of optimizing 1 and 2. Its too hard on my 40 year old body to try and get fast at running, but I can still improve on the swim and bike.

Dev

16

Yep, my wife wanted me to tell the ST folks she got a PR also in her second running of the 1/2 marathon. She was 2:55 last year, and this year she was under 2:50. She wanted me to tell folks it was because of her at least an hour and a half a week of fast running at the track. :o)

(She told me I had to put in the smiley face)

Yes, the weather was great. My wife said it was too hot. It started off a little warmer than last year.

Yes, this is again why I need many more data points on using the PC’s to see if they help. I love to work hard, but having the best toys while doing this is more fun. As an example, my computrainer worked great as an indoor trainer, but my velotron just took my “fun” to the next level.

The only reason I kinda play games with the PC comments is there seem to be so many folks who are “experts” about them, but they have NEVER tried them in their lives. Why do some love to knock a product they have not even tried? This is what makes no sense to me. And you can try them for 3 months and if you do not think they have helped, one can send them back for a full refund. I do not know many products that you can buy that will say this. We have folks who spend thousand of dollars on bikes and are setup on them so poorly that they really have wasted their money. I know in the FIT race, here I am riding my HED frame, and this guy is using an old steel bike and I barely kept in front of him. Man did that show me first hand its about the engine.

Dave

17

I hear what you say with respect to sitting in traffic during the peak commute. Any chance you can ride to work a few days per week ? How far do you live from your work ? You might be able to drive to work in the morning and run home one day (in the dark) and next day ride your bike in and then throw your bike in the car for the commute home (thus no riding in the dark). Both morning workouts could be preceded by 60 min on your velotron.

You also don’t need to do 2+ hours every morning, if you are concerned with energy levels at work. Perhaps start with 2-3 times per week and get to work early on the other mornings. Just some thoughts.

In life (both personal and professional) I live by 2 almost contridictory statements:

  1. Efficiency Theme: Time expands to accomodate work to be completed (ie you become more efficient)

  2. Inefficiency Theme: Work expands to consume all available time (ie you become less efficient…ie what Intel gives, Microsoft takes…)

Its funny, but sometimes the less time or resources you have, the more efficient you become. This seems to apply equally well to individuals and organizations :-). Anyway, see if you can apply the efficiency theme to your daily set up and you’ll be surprised how well you can actually “manufacture time”.

18

Dave, Congrats on a great race.

(Skeptical note) If all your training is 6.19 hrs per wk. its not your power cranks.

You are either:

  1. reaping the rewards of a long racing season

  2. fine tuned on the run

  3. OR just fast to begin with.

Its not the power cranks!

19

Dev, I agree. And just wait until you get to be 50.

Now, what I hear from folks that race a few years older than me is one WILL slow down running, and there is nothing one can do about it. I can not remember the last time a person older than me has passed me on the run.

But, what I do see all the time are folks older than me, that are faster than me on the swim, and pass me on the bike. I remember this year a guy blowing by me on the bike and seeing 62 on his back leg. I think I may have passed him during the run, but it sure showed me what I need to focus on as I get older. I need the bike speed which does not look like it leaves as quickly as one gets older compared to running. I have also been told that as one gets older, a lot more ankles get twisted on the run. I noticed that this year for me.

Yes, having some accidents can take its toll on the body now, and in the future. Knees seem to really stop a lot of folks. This is why I am not planning to ever run more than 2 hours in training, or run probably more than 30 miles a week. What I hope to do is stay in decent shape and still be able to compete as I get older. The number of folks over 50 that race really seems to drop off in Tris.

Dave

20

While I am 8 years younger, the fickle knees, plantar fascia and achilles have already crippled my run somewhat. The good thing is that this year, I set PB’s on the bike and all winter in XC ski races (easiest on the body).

For the above reasons, I have decided that I need to take a break from yearly spring/fall marathons, stick to training runs of less than 2 hours and just focus on biking and swimming to get to race day in one piece :slight_smile:

21

Dev, more great points. Thanks.

I was riding my bike into work at the beginning of the summer. I stopped at a parkadn ride and ride half way to work, and it was then 15 miles to work. I stopped when the summer days got over 95 degrees. Now, once the days started to cool off, I really found myself having much better workouts on my trainer. (And this was when I still had my CT and no PC’s.) I had lots of stop lights, etc going to work so I really never got a good solid workout. Also, I just had too many close calls with cars, gravel, animals, that after reading about all the bike accidents on ST, I just started to get up at 5 in the morning, and hop on the trainer. The interval power workouts were harder than anything I have done on a bike ride. (Now, it is clear I do not ride hard enough outside, but thats another issue.)

Again, thanks for the statements. I agree with them. This is why I do not watch TV, except when I am eatting. I do not play computer games, etc. I try to get the most from every minute of the day. People ask me all the time how do I get so much done in life. I just say how can it be so hard, and then I find they watch 2 hours of TV a day. (Now, I sure have lost time since I found ST. :o) )

Dave

22

Yep, I can not prove it.

I have never been a fast runner. I do believe your number 1 is it. A nice long solid season, built on building up over the years.

Dave