I notice that in some TTTs, some teams will use a double paceline formation. What is the benefit, if any, of this? Seems like an extra drain to have two men on the front.
I think they’re riding *en echelon, *to help mitigate the effects of the strong winds blowing from the sides.
Tony
Good observation. Only one man is on the front, the other is on the relief line, moving back. In general, you see a double pacline in a TTT when the team wants shorter pulls at the front. They are only doing a few pedal strokes and then moving off into the relief line.
One benefit, in addition to shorter turns, is that the relief line (should be) pulling off into the prevailing wind direction, sheilding the advancing line from any crosswind.
Notice that the super strong Discovery team rarely went double, but generally took longer pulls individually and relieved to the rear one man at a time. That is domination. Avg speed: (*average) *39 mph.
Tom said exactly what I didn’t know how to say about the whole echelon thing, which, coincidentally, is used in drill field marching formations with troops 
Tom’s the man, the big cheese, el gato grande, chef, patrone, primo, capo di tutti capi…you name it :-)))
Antonio della Kahuna.
Thanks, Tom. At the risk of appearing dense, though, I must admit that I still don’t quite get it. Are you saying the relief line is moving slower than the lead line? And what is the advantage of falling back in a group as opposed to solo? Why does that allow you to take shorter pulls? And don’t you still have two guys on the front? Why can’t I get my head around this?
Think of it as a single paceline, but constantly rotating. As soon as you get to the front you fall off. The windward side line is not a “paceline” at all, but the natural result of the front rider immediately falling off.
I ride with a group of 10-12 guys who utilize this formation exclusively. With a practiced squad with equal strengths it can be devastating. On the other hand, it naturally forces the entire group to ride at the speed of the slowest rider, so it is ill suited to teams with super-studs like Armstrong.
Even thought the second line is the “relief” line and the riders in it are “resting” they are going so fast that they need a draft to get any sort of recovery as they cycle through the line. The lead rider is going somewhere around 38-40 mph. The folks in the “relief” line are “resting” at about 37.75 to 39.75 mph as they drop back if they are even slowing down that much. After all, they still need to be going fast enough to jump on the end of the main line when they get to it. If they pulled off the front and hit the brakes to drop back, they’d never be able to acclerate back up to the speed of the main line.
As soon as you get to the front you fall off. The windward side line is not a “paceline” at all, but the natural result of the front rider immediately falling off.
Thanks. That makes a lot of sense now.
not seeing what you’ve seen, I think there is a difference between a single paceline with very short pulls off the front/everybody pulls off to the left after about 5 sec pull (so there’s a continuous chain of riders going backwards), and a ‘true’ double paceline where riders peel of to the right OR left, depending on whether they are right or left in the pack. Best I can tell, used with larger groups - you get a more compact and thus more aero group, and still you’re able to do your pulls b/c ‘your’ line is large enough to allow recovery from your last pull.
We have been doing a double pace line in our weekly ride recently. It has been windy recently in our area and it helps insulate the guys on the inside from strong winds. I hate the double pace line. I would much rather hammer out a minute of pain on my buddies and then retreat to the end of the line for some rest than ride around in a circle at a constant pace. Not to mention, three of us ride our tri bikes. It is a bit claustrophobic when you are in the aero bars with gravel shoulder on your right, a rider on your left at all times and a bike in front and behind. In the traditional pace line, I can leave myself a little room if I am not completely comfortable with the riding skills of the dude in front of me.
Nothing like putting the hurt on your buddies during the weekly ride among alpha males. If you do this in a double you are not a team player.
STP actually explained it better than I did. He is right, even the “resting” relief line is still moving forward fast, but hopefully in the draft of the rider in front.
The hardest moment, from a physical and skill perspective, is the transition from relief to advancing line at the back. If the timing is not good, the rider going into the advancing line has to make a very hard effort to stay in contact, and it can create a momentary see-saw effect that makes everyone work harder and slows the group down.
The key thing is, when it is really going ballistic, to *get off *the front the second you hit the front. Yu are there for only about six pedal strokes, just enough time for the guy next to you move over and make room, then off.
It is where the saying “Through and off” came from. Done correctly, like the Disco boys did, it is sensational.
Are you saying the relief line is moving slower than the lead line?
Ideally, whether resting or working, the object is to maintain a steady tempo so the rider who takes over the lead position must avoid trying to motivate the speed by dropping the hammer! In that case the line will start to look like a slinky requiring the riders at the back to deal with surges in the pace in order to maintain proper contact. That is inefficient and prevents the riders from recovering because they are now exerting as much or more energy simply trying to maintain their spacing as they did when pulling at the front. Regardless of the technique used in the paceline, when a rider comes off the front, that rider will move to the side that would allow the paceline to block the wind in order for the rider to begin the recovery process. At those speeds though, the recently relieved rider will not be backing off his individual tempo, but because he is no longer having to fight the wind, he obviously is not having to exert as much energy to maintain the tempo of the team and thus can try to recover from his effort.
We have been doing a double pace line in our weekly ride recently. It has been windy recently in our area and it helps insulate the guys on the inside from strong winds. I hate the double pace line. I would much rather hammer out a minute of pain on my buddies and then retreat to the end of the line for some rest than ride around in a circle at a constant pace. Not to mention, three of us ride our tri bikes. It is a bit claustrophobic when you are in the aero bars with gravel shoulder on your right, a rider on your left at all times and a bike in front and behind. In the traditional pace line, I can leave myself a little room if I am not completely comfortable with the riding skills of the dude in front of me.
Gawd! this is why we have a no aero bar rule for our long group road rides, “Close that gap, trigeek!”
Its sometimes called “through and off” (I guess because you ride THROUGH before dropping OFF to the side) - It is quite common in breakaways in bunch racing and in roady Sunday “Chain gangs”. Its a good way of making sure everyone does their turn.
Say you are starting of at the back on the left line (if the chain is moving in a clock wise direction) you follow the wheel of the rider infront as the line moves forward. Usually far to quickly the rider in front will peal off to the right leaving you at the front. Once you have cycled past the rider who had moved to the side you peal of to the right infront of him. The rider who was behind you will then cycle past you and drop infront of you. Once you are at the back of the right line you move across to join the back of the left line again and the process starts all over again.
A cunning tip is to make sure you are behind the slowest rider then when they peal of to the side they are easy to cycle past!
actually, the roadies in our group are the guys to worry about. Always trying to get another millimeter closer to the guy in front of them. Tires lock up and you are looking for an exit.
The triathletes in the group can dust the roadies at any time.
Avg speed: (*average) *39 mph.
Sure it’s not 35.62 mph? Not that I’ll ever see that in my lifetime, but 39 just makes it that much more out of reach.
“It is a bit claustrophobic when you are in the aero bars with gravel shoulder on your right, a rider on your left at all times and a bike in front and behind.”
And we wonder why the roadies hate us?
I would never ride with a group who utilized aerobars midpack. It’s not worth it.
The best tip is to get between two riders who are 6’2", 220lbs that way whether you are in the lead line or the recovery line, you always have the draft of a small bus in front of you. Speaking of which, have any of you ever drafted/motorpaced behind a van/bus/truck? It is amazing how what little effort it takes to hold 50+km/h when there is zero headwind. Of course, my brother-in-law now sports a Titanium plate in his chin due to an unseen pot hole while employing this technique, but, hey that in itself is pretty cool. C’mon, we’ve all ridden (or wanted to ride) Ti bikes, but a Ti body part??? I can see the trigeeks lining up for the cosmetic surgery already!!!
You are right, their average speed was 35.62, which, for the record, is faster than I get in most descents…
On the other hand, it naturally forces the entire group to ride at the speed of the slowest rider, so it is ill suited to teams with super-studs like Armstrong.
In a TTT all riders tries to ride with the same speed no matter if they are strong or weak, also when they they ride in a single paceline. It takes takes too much energy to accelerate and decellerate all the time, instead it’s much better that the strong and weak guys keep the excat same speed all the time but spends different amount of time pulling depending on their strenght. This is much more efficient than beeing the same amount of time on the front and varying speed. On Danish TV before the stage today I heard both guys from Discovery, CSC and Liberty say that.
Liberty DS Manolo Saiz mentioned it, Discovery DS Johan Bruyneel mentioned it and Luke Roberts, current Olympic champ and multiple World Champ in 4000 meter team pursuit from Team CSC also mentioned the same. All three said how important it is to keep a constant speed all the time no matter who is pulling. If you are strong then just stay longer at the front if you are weak then take short turns but still with the same speed.
Riders like Amrstrong and Ullrich doesn’t ride faster when they are at the front than others on their team, they just pull for longer time. Good team ride with a constant speed all the time no matter who’s at the front. You will notice that there a big difference of how long different riers stay at the front.
And these three guys know what they are talking about since both Saiz’ and Bruyneel’s team have won this discipline several times. Luke Roberts has been practicing this to perfection in team pursiut on the track and in TTT’s on the road for the last ten years. They use the same tactic in a 4000 m team pursuit and the lenght of the pulls is almost the same, you just get to rest longer in a TTT because there’s 8-9 riders (or 6 in the Eindhoven ProTour TTT) instead of just four as in team pursiut.
But echelon is ill suited for teams with much difference between strong and weak riders as you mentioned. But not because of different speed but because the strong guys can’t stay longer at the front than the weak guys without destroying the echelon. But maybe that’s what you meant when you said everyone would need to ride at the speed of the slowest rider.