In every threat to Israel, must they always refer to the holocaust? I for one am tired of their inability or unwillingness to find a solution to the situation with Palestine.
Hitler.
That didn’t take long.
It’s a law you know. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin’s_law
~Matt
Grudge holders. Get over the attempted genocide already.
That didn’t take long.
Why waste time? You know it was going to end up there soon enough.
I must be really naive. I am one of those folks who thinks surely Iran would never do anything THAT stupid. I mean the US would wipe them off the face of the map if they ever attempted to detonate a nuke in Israel. Am I that naive to think they would?
Hitler.
Quirk’s Exception: nullified.
MM,
I just finished reading a book titled “An End to Faith” by Sam Harris. As a man of faith I found to be a fascinating read. I think if you read it you would have to evaluate a different perspective of how Islam and Judism/Christianity are heading for a crash course.
Regardless of the names and places, according to Mr. Harris, this confrontation could end most of civilization. According to the book, the religion of Islam provides encouragement for death in the name of Allah, which in about 20 pages, he concludes means that theocracies (like most governments of the world according to the author) will not hesitate when pressed against the wall to push that button. Christianity and Judism are not very far behind according to him.
To be fair to the author, he claims that the three religions in question are the basis for most of the world’s ills. He doesn’t discriminate in any fashion and tries to show that all three have very dark underbellies and basically are used to hold down the general populace. I am not sure I agree with the entire book, but the author makes some really interesting arguements there.
Mike
I mean the US would wipe them off the face of the map…
At this point and time I seriously doubt that the US populous has the balls to do what it would take to wipe a small town off the face of the planet. There is no way in hell that the media or extreme “Peace lovers” would allow such destruction to a population or environment to take place, reguardless of prior atrocities committed.
~Matt
I must be really naive. I am one of those folks who thinks surely Iran would never do anything THAT stupid. I mean the US would wipe them off the face of the map if they ever attempted to detonate a nuke in Israel. Am I that naive to think they would?
Not naive, maybe lazy though. Think it through more thoroughly. Just because the U.S. has a nuclear arsenal doesn’t mean it has the wherewithall to use it willy nilly. Furthermore, think about just how many Muslims there are throughout the world. Do you really think engaging Iran would result in a war with only Iran? The rule of thumb seems to be that Muslims killing Muslims is okay (it’s all in the family). Westerners killing Muslims is akin to a Crusade and causes Muslims to rise up and retaliate throughout the world. Jews killing Muslims is Armageddon time, and everyone is going to get tagged.
All the politicking aside, the use of nuclear weapons is a largely unexplored aspect of international aggression. It is far from clear who else would get involved that is nuclear capable, and which “side” that nationality or nationalities would be on. Don’t forget their are also players on the sideline that don’t really have a dog in this fight. But, say a China could chime in with Iran and tip the battle to Irans’ side, much to our chagrin. And just why would a China do something so “stupid”? There is a lot of oil to be picked up by a new best friend in such an outcome.
Lastly, with respect to Iran, the words and action of their current president is anything but rational. Your use of the term stupid is based on a Western perspective and a Western basis for risk and reward of specific actions. The Middle East, and Islamic countries in genera,l have a much different cultural take on risk and reward. One obvious example is the concept of martydom which seems to be quite the rage in Islamic culture, but clearly not so in the West. But more disturbing is there is a mindset that the Crusades are still unfinished business, and that Israel is the focus of this obsession. As I understand it, Israel represents the Wests’ effort to contain the Islamic world, the tip of the spear of Western agrression if you will.
So, combine their cultural perspective as to what the world should look like in terms of the distribution of Islam and the current status of the Caliphate, with the Islamic sense of what is morally acceptable and I think the answer to your question is that it is not all clear if Iran would do something that would seem so obviously stupid from our perspective. From their perspective it may make perfect sense, along with the attitude that it was high time to do something like that.
Think about it some more.
Just because the U.S. has a nuclear arsenal doesn’t mean it has the wherewithall to use it willy nilly.
I think that’s the same for everyone else too so just because a country has a nuclear weapon does not necessarily translate to them using it. Many cried foul when Pakistan joined the club, but they haven’t used it.
**But, say a China could chime in with Iran and tip the battle to Irans’ side, much to our chagrin. And just why would a China do something so “stupid”? There is a lot of oil to be picked up by a new best friend in such an outcome. **
I think if China and Iran got together and started throwing nuclear weapons around, the last thing they have to worry about is picking up oil.
Lastly, with respect to Iran, the words and action of their current president is anything but rational.
The real power in Iran is with the religious leader, not the President. He is a puppet and is rhetoric is meant to draw attention to Iran.
I think the threat of Iran using nuclear weapons is also overblown, just as it is with North Korea. With NK, I think the saber rattling is an attempt to bring the West to the bargaining table with economic rewards flowing to NK as the desired outcome.
With Iran, they want to be seen as the power in the Middle East, which they are, and to diminish the importance of the U.S, which they are also doing. I think they want to be seen amongst the Muslims, as a real power that can stand up to Israel.
Casey, you are cutting up the pieces on the table and rearranging them for your response.
The original question was is Iran “stupid” enough to use nuclear weapons on Israel and draw the U.S. into a nuclear conflict, not would Iran and China team up and unilaterally start WWIII.
Iran and many Middle East Islamic countries have a pre-exisitng agenda with respect to Israel. The Six Day War, the Yom Kipper War, and the ongoing Palestinian struggle, Syrian intervention through Lebanon, as well as Al Quedas’ repeated objectives makes that clear enough. Note well that all those previous wars did not go well for the Islamic side. In fact, I believe Israel expanded territory after each conflict, returning some territories after a time. Just because those efforts failed, does not mean that the Islamic efforts have stopped. It is also no reason to rule out their use of nuclear weapons, which were never available to them before. Of interest is that Israel may have had nuclear weapons at the time but chose not to use them. There has been plenty of speculation as to how close they were to using them on a couple of occasions.
My use of China was an example of how far and how fast things can spin from just a one on one conflict. Russia, Pakistan, India, France even could play parts. I think Britain would be a given. A simple review of the events leading up to World War I would be very educational at this point.
As far as your belief as the the restraint all other countries would use regarding nuclear weapons points to your naivety, and may even exceeds that of the person I first responded to in this thread. North Korea does not have an agenda other than pulling itself out of the economic gutter it finds itself in and the possible reunion with the south. North Korea using nuclear weapons on South Korea would achieve neither, and North Korea lacks the capability to deliver such weapons to the U.S. Iran, on the other hand has a clear agenda, clear targets - the Israelis, and a moral obligation to do something about the infidels occupying holy ground in Jerusalem.
As far as the puppet president in Iran goes, listen a little closer to the rhetoric. A lot of it centers on religious objectives, not political ones. I think I would be less concerned if it were more about typical Western oppression and capitalistic depraved society. That isn’t what this guy is talking about, and that worries me.