It seems to me that a middle class is an artificial fantasy that can’t exist in a modern economy. Am I wrong? Is the modern world economy geared toward a society of super rich and dirt poor?
First you will have to define middle class and if you are asking because you are looking aro und you wondering then you need to narrow your focus a bit. Bringing the whole damn planet into the equation screws up the numbers.
Middle class. Able to afford a house with a yard, work one job, do a couple of triathlons a year and can put enough back for investment and retirement. I am talking about the US middle class but have to bring in the world because that is where the jobs seem to be going.
Yup…what’s middle class? Ask people in this country and you’ll get a wide range of responses, but all of them will be well above what middle class would be defined as on a global scale (as in: ‘running water, a roof and enough food to subsist’). Until that’s defined then any talk of this ‘middle class’ is futile.
However, I will say *in this country *the middle class, to me, is a pretty large segment of the population, whether people want to admit their inclusion or not. Upper-middle and lower-middle are pretty far apart–the difference between the ability to save for children’s college and retirement concurrently, and the mere ability to own a small home and put three meals on the table while paying for utilities and essentials and scrapping together modest savings. What many of the lower-middle class individuals don’t seem to grasp these days is that the non-essentials–the flat screens, the smart phones, the dishwashers, the second/third cars, the restaurant nights–those aren’t necessities, and if spending on those is keeping you from paying your mortgage, or your heat, or food, it’s not the government’s responsibility to bridge that gap. You’re not ‘poor’, or ‘struggling’, you simply don’t know how to prioritize and be self-sufficient.
(not sure if I’m making sense, or if this is even the purpose of the OP, my apologies if not)
"You’re not ‘poor’, or ‘struggling’, you simply don’t know how to prioritize and be self-sufficient. "
Not true for everyone. The idea that everyone is fine they just don’t know how to budget is pure bullshit and I am really getting pissed off when it is used in a blanket statement.
"Not true for everyone. The idea that everyone is fine they just don’t know how to budget is pure bullshit and I am really getting pissed off when it is used in a blanket statement. "
He didn’t make that statement in relation to everyone. He specifically called out the folks who complain about mortgages, bills, and food costs, but have all the nice toys like flat screens.
I get pissed off when people get pissed off before reading carefully. 
"You’re not ‘poor’, or ‘struggling’, you simply don’t know how to prioritize and be self-sufficient. "
Not true for everyone. The idea that everyone is fine they just don’t know how to budget is pure bullshit and I am really getting pissed off when it is used in a blanket statement.
It wasn’t a blanket statement, as I prefaced the group I was talking about: ‘ability to own a small home and put three meals on the table while paying for utilities and essentials and scrapping together modest savings.’ Not everyone falls into that category, and there’s absolutely a ‘poor’ segment of the population for whom that statement does not pertain. My point is that on the lower end of middle-class there are a lot of people who don’t seem to understand that their spending habits–whether it be smart phones, or cars/homes that are out of their price range, or eating out all the time–are what’s keeping them from achieving the ‘middle class’ ideal of self-sufficiency and putting together modest savings.
And as an example, the oft cited Macon woman who can’t seem to heat her home without government assistance, despite loading up on all the ‘toys’ that many of us did without while growing up:
http://www.macon.com/2010/12/16/1379464/funding-cuts-leave-many-without.html
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there can be a white collar professional middle class* - but not a blue collar middle class without a healthy percent having collective bargaining
*for the time being
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The middle class do need to dudget better.
Here in canada we recently had two savings program introduced, aTFSA (tax free saving account) and a RESP (registered education savings plan). Both geared for middle class individuals like my self. I am one of very few people in my tax bracket that use these tools (that I know). Why? because instead of having savings my friends have a BMW vs a ford, or spend 200.00 a month on a cell phone plan etc.
What happened to the 10% rule, pay your self 10% off the top in a savings plan.
"I get pissed off when people get pissed off before reading carefully. "
Well yeah. This however wasn’t my reading that the problem it was my writing that made me look stupid. I understand the posters point but there seems to be a meme in society if you are poor it’s because you just blow all your money all the time and no matter how little money you have a budget will fix everything. So I sit here feeling kinda assy.
From where I am sitting and looking it seems like reality is being avoided from all sides of the economic and political spectrum. Back when I was a Ditto Head talk radio junky I believed that if we let the super rich run wild then all ships would rise and all would be hunky dory. The more I look around though I see that the big money producers don’t give a fuck the society around them and are just into the thrill of conquering and collecting. That is fine but at the same time we keep feeding ourselves this American Dream bullshit that there will be a car in every garage and a chicken in every pot.
I am now seeing talk of the American Dream, from both the left and the right, as nothing be snake oil. It is a way to keep the dumb asses posting hand written letters on the web and to keep everyone voting. I am rambling or “Tibbsing” but I want to know is the idea that everyone can make it because this is 'Merica bullshit or is it realistic? Isn’t it time to stop saying it will be great for everyone and it’s all about budgeting and talk about whether or not it is possible to have a thriving middle class and whether or not there is room a the top for anyone with a dream.
I am just tired of slogans and self help Oprah bullshit. What are we really looking at?
I see where you are coming from and I agree with your sentiment - I’ve got two teenagers and I tell them with hard work and skill anyone can achieve the Big Time American Dream - but especially lately - I know it’s a big lie . . .
Shit, I want to keep telling them to go for it, but If I had balls I’d tell them to get a skill like plumbing and make a tidy income, or tell them to be a vagabond and live off the under belly of society.
I am an IT professional, and most of the folks I know and hang with are university folk, teachers, doctors, IT and etc - white collar professionals, and yes we worked for what we’ve got (at least we think we did) , but honestly, compared to peeps in the 3rd world who spend hours a day just securing water, we basically just stumbled into what we’ve got. I don’t think my kids can stumble and get what I have. The capital markets rule the world - and labor is going to continue to take it on the chin.
"You’re not ‘poor’, or ‘struggling’, you simply don’t know how to prioritize and be self-sufficient. "
Not true for everyone. The idea that everyone is fine they just don’t know how to budget is pure bullshit and I am really getting pissed off when it is used in a blanket statement.
Agreed! I took a 23% pay cut in '03 and for some reason, I had trouble keeping a budget after that! How does one account for a decrease like that? Just fall back on my trust fund, lotto winnings, or occasional Vegas earnings?
Tibbs, it would be good to hear your definition of middle class.
I would call myself middle to upper middle class. Nice house, hope to have enough to put my three kids through college. 1 new car our family minivan, next year my daughter starts to drive she will get my 2002 grand prix. I will buy a 2 or 3k minivan for my daily driver. We have no cell phone, no cable and one 1 46" flat panel tv. Never been to Disney, do a one week family trip per year at a cost of a few thousand dollars.
The problem is most people I work with have 1.5 to 2 times my income do the Disney, have cable, cell phones ect… and complain they have no money…
It seems to me that a middle class is an artificial fantasy
I would disagree. In fact under the right conditions I think the tendency is to conglomerate at a “Middle class” if for no other reason than the more money you make the less value that money has to you compared to the one before it and the less you make the opposite is true.
So a rich person is far more likely to do less and more willing to give up a buck and a poor person is far more likely to do more for and less likely to give up a buck.
That being said I don’t think that to many people have the same value set so one person make be willing to work themselves to death in an attempt to “Succeed” while another simply will not be willing to do so.
In short, the poor will always be with us and the rich will always be with us, if for no other reason than people have different values.
~Matt
The problem is most people I work with have 1.5 to 2 times my income do the Disney, have cable, cell phones ect… and complain they have no money…
So are you saying middle class is a state of mind? I.e. being satisfied with your purchasing power?
bingo.
The 1% and the 99%. The middle class is going the way of the dodo if things don’t change.
First you will have to define middle class and if you are asking because you are looking around you wondering then you need to narrow your focus a bit. Bringing the whole damn planet into the equation screws up the numbers.
Median +/- 1σ.
Median is ~$50k. If 15% of the population is in poverty, that = x > -1σ. The poverty line is $10k. Thus 1σ=$40,000.
The “middle class” is everyone who makes between 10k and 90k (household income).
Ironically, the term middle class initially mean the people between the working class and the upper class. Between the proletariat and the bourgeoisie. The middle class was created because of the industrial revolution, and the need for people who didn’t own the factories to manage them. So by pure definition, only “working professionals” would be the middle class - i.e. engineers, non-partner lawyers, managers, etc. However, in our post WWII US, the middle class seems to be typified by the working class - when the media and/or campaigning politicians wants middle class, they choose plumbers. Plumbers historically would be working class. Mechanical engineers would be the middle class. Rambling mess agreeing with you…
I like your post but in my county you can’t buy a single family home on household income of $90,000, so I don’t think it is anywhere near the top of middle class. And my plumber charges $100/hour. My wife is an architect and she cannot charge $100/hr in this market. And her student loans are a lot more than most plumbers …
I would guess $150k to $175k is the top of middle class in my area. I have no mathematical formula to show my work - it’s just a gut feeling.