The top marathon runners

Triathlon Forum
1

As you know a Kenyan broke the Chicago marathon course record yesterday with a 2:05:41. The first american was 8th at 2:15.

That 2:15 would have been close enough for a win the last time a natural born American won the race in the 1980’s. Sure one guy was closer to 2:10 back then, but it’s hard to find Americans with that speed today. Even harder to find Americans competing at the level of the Kenyans. And for every Kenyan racing today, and even for those in the 2:08-2:10 range, which is only good enough for a day when everyone else breaks down, there is probably 20 Kenyans training 150 miles per week waiting for their chance.

Really, how does anyone compete with these guys? Their genetics are built for running, they have extremely low body fat, and they don’t mind living in poverty conditions to be able to run to make a living. Just unbeatable. And frankly their amazing.

2

Please, ‘genetics’? How many times has that been disproved? Just like Canadians are genetically pre-disposed to being hockey players, or Norwegians to being cross-country skiers, or Belgians to being cyclists… Doesn’t it make more sense that a relatively poor country has some early successes in a sport that needs basically no investment to participate in which causes the search for more outliers (pre-disposed to extreme aerobic efforts) so that they are over-represented twenty-five or thirty years on?.. Does it sound racist if you say that very tall African-Americans are genetically pre-disposed to playing basketball? Uh huh - I guess all the Spanish, Italian, Greek, Croatians, etc., etc., that are in the NBA aren’t? Yep - those Southwest Texan teenagers are genetically pre-disposed to playing American Football… I could go on…

3

Ryan Hall ran London 2008 in 2:06:17. That’s only 36 seconds slower than the Kenyan at Chicago. I expect to see great things in the future for him.

4

I’m with Roadent in regard to the genetics thing. There are bound to be plenty of Americans with the same genetics. One consistent difference I see is that the Africans run with the same maximal efficiency. I’m sure they learn it from each other. I remember in high school how the whole CC team started to mimic the running form of the top runner thinking that was why he was fast (it wasn’t).

At last year’s Boston marathon I watched both Goucher and Hall run with the leaders and could see the difference…and knew they were using more energy to cover the distance than the Africans with them.

5

You did see the results of the World Half Marathon championship race too, right? Comparing THE top Kenyan with someone who is not generally considered among the top US marathoners is ridiculous.

6

It would be easy to say that Ryan Hall has the genetics for running, which would be unique for an American. His diet, upbringing, traing, and many other attributes give him a competetive disadavantage.

7

Read Daniel Coyles ‘The Talent Code.’ It’s a very interesting look at what really makes talent ‘hot beds’ appear and could go a long way to explaining these phenomena.

8

That reminds me of the old joke about Kenyan runners. I’ll update it slightly…

A reporter asks a runner from Nyahururu,Kenya why Kenyan runners are so fast.

The runner replied…“because as school aged kids each morning we had to run ten miles to school and then ten miles back home in the afternoon”.

The reporter is astonished and then asks…“ok, why then is Samuel Wanjiru faster than the rest of you?”

“oh, he went home for lunch” the runner replied.

9

I think and have heard this many times is that the Africans run high mileage very early in their running careers while Americans in high school and college don’t. I bet if you asked Ryan Hall how many mpw he was running in high school and college and compared that to what Sammy Wanjiru did you would see a HUGE difference. All those miles add up and make a huge difference.

10

Can also be that for many Kenyans, running is the only ticket to any financial means - for them and family. In U.S., college kid can still eat if running doesnt work out.

11

ryan hall competes with them just fine.

the way to compete is for america to have 2 million boys running 50 miles a week

in a few years you get some winners

As you know a Kenyan broke the Chicago marathon course record yesterday with a 2:05:41. The first american was 8th at 2:15.

That 2:15 would have been close enough for a win the last time a natural born American won the race in the 1980’s. Sure one guy was closer to 2:10 back then, but it’s hard to find Americans with that speed today. Even harder to find Americans competing at the level of the Kenyans. And for every Kenyan racing today, and even for those in the 2:08-2:10 range, which is only good enough for a day when everyone else breaks down, there is probably 20 Kenyans training 150 miles per week waiting for their chance.

Really, how does anyone compete with these guys? Their genetics are built for running, they have extremely low body fat, and they don’t mind living in poverty conditions to be able to run to make a living. Just unbeatable. And frankly their amazing.

12

Doesn’t it make more sense that a relatively poor country has some early successes in a sport that needs basically no investment to participate in which causes the search for more outliers

But the Kenyan runners are from a relatively small part of the country up in the mountains. If the success is due to economics, wouldn’t more of them come from the rest of the country? I would also think places like India would have millions of world class marathoners.

13

I would also think places like India would have millions of world class marathoners.

Running has to be a part of your culture as well. It’s just not in India. They’d rather play cricket.

14

they do but the genetic backgrouns are not all that similar apparently

and ethiopians do just as well.

But the Kenyan runners are from a relatively small part of the country up in the mountains. If the success is due to economics, wouldn’t more of them come from the rest of the country? I would also think places like India would have millions of world class marathoners.

15

Speaking of World 1/2 Marathon, it was interesting to hear the broadcasters talk about how Zersenay Tadese’s first choice would have been cycling, and that running was sport pick #2 for him.

16

I think and have heard this many times is that the Africans run high mileage very early in their running careers while Americans in high school and college don’t. I bet if you asked Ryan Hall how many mpw he was running in high school and college and compared that to what Sammy Wanjiru did you would see a HUGE difference.

x2

Haile Gebrselassie is one of the best runners in history, if not the very best. He got his start by running 10k to school and back every day. How many miles does that add up to?

As for American runners, Dathan Ritzenhein just won 3rd in the 1/2 marathon World Championship. It was an exciting race to watch. (Go Universal Sports!)

17

20k per day (12.4 mi) * 5 days per week = 100k (61 mi) per week (not including weekends). Makes a huge difference on the developing body as it grows up. Believe me, there are some permanent effects that change a body to a runner’s body at an early age.

I knew two people, both at age 35, were both out of shape and wanted to do the same marathon. Both were co-workers and they talked to each other fairly often. The big difference was that one ran track and field in high school and college and the other came from a purely sedentary lifestyle. It was night and day who got into shape faster and ran the marathon faster; I had to help encourage the formerly sedentary guy that he will get better as he keeps up his fitness.

18

Read this book: More Fire, How to Run the Kenyan Way.

http://www.amazon.com/More-Fire-How-Run-Kenyan/dp/1594160740

Basically, the point of the book is that Kenyan runners grow up with very active lifestyles, working on farms, lots of walking, running and hard work. Once they start competitive running, they train very hard and live Spartan lives centered on running. Spartan to a degree that most Western runners wouldn’t be willing to do, especially over the long term.

And the depth of talent is such that there are lots of very fast guys/gals that push each other in training. Running is a very desirable career choice in Kenya, and once they embark on it, it is taken very seriously.

19

There a number of factors that have produced an over-abundance of “power athletes” in the African-American population…as well as an over abundance of endurance athletes in the high mountains of Kenya and surrounding countries…

To a couple of posters: No, there is no genetic pre-disposition for African-American men to play basketball…to say there is one is, in fact, racist…there is one towards tall people playing basketball, though the skill-set still needs to be developed…The actual genetic predisposition that statitically exsists in the African-American population is for power…Early in the 1600’s, the slave trade brought the first western African people to this country…over the next 150 years, the individuals that were chosen (and who managed to survive the ordeal) were the biggest and strongest…So, you ended up with a genetic pool of large, strong individuals…Perfect for power…

In the high mountains of Kenya, the people have evolved and adapted over millions of years as a nomadic band of hunter-gatherers…running for food, for water, for basic transportation, etc…Natural selection has meant that the fastest and most able to handle the lifestyle have been able to pass on their genetic gifts (speed and endurance)

Combine this with a very spartan and poverty stricken culture with no real distractions beyond the occasional soccer match (something that also encourages endurance) and voila, you get an entire culture of people perfectly adapted to run distances fast.

How do we compete with the Kenyans? Everyone needs to move to Boulder, give up all modern conveniences, chase food with bows and arrows…and then wait about a million years…The end result will be more really fast Americans than anomolies like Ryan Hall.

Or, we can export Wal-Mart, McDonald’s and reality TV…along with millions of TVs to watch it…to all the villages in the Rift Valley and wait the same million years…They’ll slow down.

By the way…Don’t think that every Kenyan is a bad-ass runner…I’ve been there…For every Sammy Wanjiru, there are hundreds of broken runners who couldn’t handle 125-150 mile training weeks.

That said…They train f*ing hard…I remember seeing a documetary once, it was set in one of the very high camps and was following John Ngugi as he went for yet another World XC title…In the background, not mentioned in the piece at all, was a lone white guy with a porn-star mustache…kind of crumpled up on his bunk, clearly shattered from the day’s workouts…(John had been on both of them, and seemed pretty fresh in the interview)…It was Ed Eyestone, arguably America’s best marathoner of the day, in preparation for the Barcelona Olympics…

20

You’re darn right they train hard and live a spartan life. I remember being at Scripts cliff north os UCSD about 5 years ago. There was this kenyan guy running up and down the big hill (the closed road) for about 4 hours or more since he was still running when I left. He didn’t have any gu gels, fanny water, or anything special. I bet he had 5 pct body fat, and I’m sure he was probably a world class runner. No way we Americans can compete with that kind of training and determination.