I hope like hell this doesn’t turn into the shitshow the last thread did. I frankly don’t give two fucks who thought up the concept first or who markets it better or any of that. So please keep that commentary away from this thread.
I’m interested in the 4DP training, and having done The Sufferfest videos before I’m well aware how hard the workouts are. I’d like to ramp up my bike power, and this looks like an interesting option. I also have a decent slate of races lined up for the first half of the year so I need to get my run training in as well. I just wonder how following the 4DP plan would affect run training. Looks like all that intense riding is going to shell my legs.
I use the Sufferfest over the winter, where I’m time crunched and make the trade between volume and intensity. Obviously the endurance sets like HHNF or ISLAGIATT are useful but I take advantage also of race and speed workouts as well.
Once the snow melts and I resume outdoor riding, I switch back to volume (I bike commute in the summer which allows me to throw much more volume into my plan)
I’m putting a 4dp trial on hold till post-marathon training.
But pre-season as the run milage comes down I’ll ramp the bike up and use 4dp for 2 hard rides a week mixed with zwift/course simulations for another 3/4 days.
Hey Gman - David from The Sufferfest here. We have a couple triathlon plans in our app. They include cycling, running and swim workouts and are designed by APEX Coaching – the same guys who coach Flora Duffy, Cam Dye, etc. With 4DP, the cycling workouts in that plan are even more effective than before. And not all the cycling workouts are super intense – we have ‘base’ and ‘sweet spot’ sessions and some of the videos you’ll only do at, say, 80 or 90% depending on the instructions in the plan. The app’s got a 7 day free trial, so you could get in there, check out the plans (they’re downloadable PDFs with a TON of detail, tips, etc.) and see if they make sense to you.
Thanks for posting this new thread.
I am late to the game on this training software. I read the press release and other thread/debate here on the forum little but grew weary.
Do I need a smart trainer that controls the wattage or would a bike with powertap and a cyclops fluid trainer and ipad cover it?
What about internet connection and speed issues. Mine is ok but not great right now.
meaning, my internet speed and bike speed!
Day light savings will kill most of my outdoor riding during the week and weather will determine weekend rides outside.
Thanks for posting this new thread.
I am late to the game on this training software. I read the press release and other thread/debate here on the forum little but grew weary.
Do I need a smart trainer that controls the wattage or would a bike with powertap and a cyclops fluid trainer and ipad cover it?
What about internet connection and speed issues. Mine is ok but not great right now.
meaning, my internet speed and bike speed!
Day light savings will kill most of my outdoor riding during the week and weather will determine weekend rides outside.
Thanks, Rob
I currently ride with a KK road machine and a power meter. The hard part is that you have to manage the wattage and cadence, where if you had a smart trainer you would only have to manage the cadence. This is hardest on the really short intervals but with time you can learn to anticipate what the program wants. I download the video so I’m not going to get hosed by a temporary internet slowdown while doing the ride.
I have memberships to both Sufferfest and Zwift, currently. I like the virtual wheel to wheel riding that Zwift provides and the kick-your-a$$ intensity of some of the Sufferfest videos.
I’m not training for a particular event, just looking to maintain fitness and entertain myself, so I don’t strictly follow plans provided by either, but I did do Full Frontal last weekend and I’m planning to use the guidance it gave to pick future training sessions. From what I’ve heard of people using the plans (from multiple providers) is that they generally give good results. It will all depend on how far up the fitness/strength pyramid you already are, but I think that the (additional) cost of a Sufferfest membership is money well spent for many of us.
I signed up for The Sufferfest after reading all of the pushback over 4DP (it seemed obvious that to cause such a reaction it must be pretty good).
So far it has been awesome. Love the videos, music, stupid sound effects when you need to speed up/ slow down etc. I’m running Garmin Vector pedals on my bike hooked up to a LeMond Rovolution and the setup works just great. The ability of the app to display target power and cadence vs actual for an interval shows me everything I need to know when riding, a clear improvement over the old school static videos where there could be no power calibration etc. I just did The Chores today, and it was great. The new videos are all using the same proven formula for success. The TT sequence at the end, in particular, was fantastic.
The one thing that is currently lacking is a full co-ordination between the (new) training plans and the videos. Asking the rider to use 'Open 60" and self-calibrate for an Endurance+ workout seems a bit of a cop-out and it wouldn’t take much work for The Sufferfest to provide an Endurance+ video with calibrated power and cadence targets rather than making me calculate the numbers and try to remember them while riding. Frankly, I dont want to think when I’m using the training plan. I have limited time and I just want to click on a video and hit it, not sit there calculating 65% of FTP and trying to remember how long I’m meant to hold it for.
Overall, it is an engaging platform, which has been seriously upgraded with 4DP calibration, personalized power targets and now some new videos to book. I’ve spent $10/mo on much worse than this, so far I’m a very happy user.
I used and still use the old sufferfest video format. The intensities given are somewhere between insane and impossible. No coach in his right mind would prescribe intensities, that are way harder than race efforts. Minimal warmups with lots of TT pace (TH Pace) even during the warmups.
I can’t do revolver or ISLAGIATT at the presricbed intensities and I am a multiple Sub 5hr bike / Sub 10 hr IM finisher.
IMHO the music and videos are great, but better forget about the intensities. Let’s talk about ISLAGIATT (Forget about the insanity of revolver, 16x1 is very traditional VO2 training and simple is not done at max. effort):
Everybody and his dog agrees, that Threshold Training is typically done in intervals with 1/2 rest time adding up to 30’ (men) or 40’ (women) (6-8x5, 5-7x6, 4-5x8, 3-4x10, 2-3x15, 2x20, 1x30, 1x40 …)
Here we have 4 intervals of 15/20/20/8 Minute Duration with minimal recoveries. Most of this intervals are done at TH intensities, with lots of max accelerations. Even the warmup and cooldown include TH intensities. So the Intensity at TH is over an hour (including some “flatter sections” with just under TH).
This effort is possible, but as a race. Not when I plan to run productivly on the same or next day. So IMHO no reason to do it in TRI training.
I still use the videos (no subscription, because there is no upgrade option for those who bought most of the videos) but I do my own training prescriptions, eg I do ISLAGIATT as a medium climbing Videos, doing the warmup and CD easy and the climbs as Big Gear medium. My FTP is just over 270, depending on the time of the Season I would do the climbs at 230 watts +/- 20
Everybody and his dog agrees, that Threshold Training is typically done in intervals with 1/2 rest time adding up to 30’ (men) or 40’ (women)
That’s the first time I have ever seen anyone propose different training prescriptions based on sex. What is the rationale for it?
Brett Sutton does it all the time, Men have more testosterone, more absolute intensity and therefore more punishment to the Body. Also larger bodysize needs more recovery. Brett Sutton methodology …
Everybody and his dog agrees, that Threshold Training is typically done in intervals with 1/2 rest time adding up to 30’ (men) or 40’ (women)
That’s the first time I have ever seen anyone propose different training prescriptions based on sex. What is the rationale for it?
Brett Sutton does it all the time, Men have more testosterone, more absolute intensity and therefore more punishment to the Body. Also larger bodysize needs more recovery. Brett Sutton methodology …
Hi Adal - Thanks for the feedback. One of the reasons that we went to an app model is so that our coaches (Neal Henderson and team at APEX Coaching) could program very specific targets that matched the intention of the workout and the individual fitness of the rider. Whether it’s Revolver or ISLAGIATT (two of the most popular videos in our app), those sessions – especially now that their driven by your Four Dimensional Power profile - are even more effective than ever before. The app has a 7 day free trial and I’d really encourage you to give it a go and try a few of the videos to understand how it works now. You can even adjust the intensity before or during the workout if you want to use the session in a different way than intended.
So glad you’re enjoying the app, bazilbrush! The Chores is also one of my personal favourites now, too! Just wanted to let you know that we have around 50 new plans coming to TrainingPeaks soon ( you’ll be able to access them all with a free TrainingPeaks account). As for the Open videos and Endurance+ rides, we’ll see what we can do to tighten things up there.
I liked having the videos has a stand alone purchase option. I already have too many software subscriptions eating at my bank account and liked being able to buy the video and just use it. I use trainer road to control my wattage and often just watch a movie etc whilst suffering. But your video’s are another good option for me. For the high intensity stuff (DAYT this week) I like to ride without having the app control the watts. I follow the RPE and see what I get.
Brett Sutton does it all the time, Men have more testosterone, more absolute intensity and therefore more punishment to the Body. Also larger bodysize needs more recovery. Brett Sutton methodology …
Good use of Brett Sutton communication skills there.
Ah, DAYT is a good one! I’m afraid that we won’t bring back videos for purchase again. We’ve fully made the transition to an app and that’s allowing us to do things that we never could have done previously – e.g., 4DP, yoga and mental training, mash-ups, achievements, rider type, etc. With our app, you can either have it control your trainer (i.e., ‘Erg’ mode) or it can just set targets for you and you try to hit them. You can even remove the targets from teh screen so you can’t see them and ride purely on RPE. You’re also able to adjust the intensity before or during a workout if you feel that’s a good idea. If you haven’t tried it yet, give the app a go – it’s free for 7 days and you can cancel during that period and not be charged.