Yeah, but can you “lat slap”? 
Your comment matches my experience. I was a very slow club swimmer, however, I could hold my own in the weight room. One of my mates swam in the Olympics, I honestly can’t recall what he was doing in the gym exactly, but I don’t recall anything epic. In the pool, different story, this guy was in a league of his own but it had nothing to do with increased strength beyond a limit.
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Tim,
Thanks for sharing yoir data and thoughts. The information is fascinating. I’ve never had access to testing and feedback like you have. How/where are you able to get the information on these swimmers? Is this testing readily available?
Steve
You’re welcome. It’s some pretty cool tech. It’s one of the first reasonably priced pieces of gear to come out to really look at the stroke. The amount of data the sensors produce is quite large.
I bought the sensors and I test athletes with them all the time. I’m doing a 5 day swim camp in March for triathletes and we’ll use the sensors then on everyone at the camp. I also do clinics and use them as well as one on one sessions in an endless pool.
If you have any other questions, let me know.
Tim
[quote=“Engner66, post:201, topic:1283457, full:true”]
Your comment matches my experience. I was a very slow club swimmer, however, I could hold my own in the weight room. One of my mates swam in the Olympics, I honestly can’t recall what he was doing in the gym exactly, but I don’t recall anything epic. In the pool, different story, this guy was in a league of his own but it had nothing to do with increased strength beyond a limit. [/quote]
Eng - You’re stuck on trying to define “strength” simply as weight room performance when it is obvious that swim strength is more complex. Yrs ago I saw a study where they measured swim strength/power in the pool using a fish weighing scale. The swimmers pulled on the scale as hard as they could and a lb-force number was generated. The correlation between the swim power numbers and 50 free times was 0.90. Now this was just one study but a 0.90 correlation is very high.
Then why did you pick pullups? If you think your theory is correct, you can prove it. Go get that pullup strength yourself, and go dominate swimming yourself. I don’t think it matters all that much. I bet lots of really fast swimmers can’t do a lot of pull ups especially the girls.
I know several examples that disprove your theory, but if you think it’s correct bring the data.
You are using a lot of terms arbitrarily.
In you argument, are you using “strength” to define force, work or power? You state the study calculates “force”, but then “power” is correlated to 50 free times? I agree with the last statement. Not any different than a kid pushing 400 W on junior gear at 120 rpm, vs. Lionel on 85 rpm. Obviously the force on the pedals would be different but the power is the same. But for me, Lionel has more strength (not power) than the junior.
It’s easy to make this simple - a proper Strength and Conditioning program will improve your swimming and help prevent injuries. I don’t need any studies to make that statement. I’ve seen it play out in the sport over the last 40 years.
pretty sure it definitely helps those who do fly
I have never said anything about pullups. You are confusing me with some other poster.
Sticking to swimming and the fish scale pulling study, if a hard pull on the scale generates a 30 lb-force reading, I think this would be considered “strength” since strength is usually measured in lbs. It really doesn’t matter what we call it b/c this strength/power/whatever is the main force that propels swimmers through the water. The kick helps some but for most of the people most of the time, the arms/shoulders will provide most of the propulsion. I don’t really see how anyone can watch swimmers very much and not conclude this.
“Strength” is measured in lbs?
Power is not force, for you all these terms don’t mean anything and you keep using them arbitrarily, but in the scientific/physics world (including the paper you are loosely referencing), they do have a meaning.
Eng - You are abso right, I have forgotten much of the physics I took. So how would you describe this??? Is the pull on the fish scale measuring power???
The way I see it, the scale sees force. But to generate and sustain the force on the scale by a swimmer in a viscous liquid, the swimmer needs to generate power. So the more power the swimmer generates the higher force reading of the fish scale. And this correlates to power despite not being directly measured.
FYI, I am not saying you don’t need strength to swim fast, I am just arguing the amount. We just saw Summer McIntosh drop a 3:50 400 SCM for the WR, which is insane. Yet, she isn’t built like a cross fitter. We will know in the nearby future as we start using sensors to measure this more often, but I am pretty certain that the hand/arm forces required to swim at those paces even at her cadence (~18 strokes per 25 m) are achievable by plenty of people and kids. We simply don’t have the aerobic capacity to do it for 3:50. Make that 22 s/5 50 m, and yes drag is exponential and you need a lot more strength. But we started talking about triathlon swimming where no one is swimming 3:50 400 SCM.
Dont confuse muscular looks with strength. Can look at the @vladimirshmondenko anatoly vids of a small janitor guy trolling big muscular guys at the gym
That dude is insane. But elite swimmers aren’t professional powerlifters and don’t train like that. Didn’t mean to say that Summer McIntosh isn’t strong, she is obviously a beast.
We will know for sure how wrong I am in a few years when swimming coaches start testing with hand sensors, but in my mind: (and assuming technique is not an issue) swimming ~30s/50 m, it’s like pushing ~6 W/kg on the bike, “everyone” can do it, but if you can hold it for a certain amount of time you could be world class, swimming 22s/50 m, it’s like pushing ~24 W/kg on the bike…not everyone can do it even for short periods of time and you need a significant amount of strength.
OK, I think we are in agreement then. Some strength is needed to swim fast, and obv the faster the more strength is needed.
We were saying the same thing, just using different terms 
Well since you are comparing swimmers to bikers… robert fosterman, track cyclist who can hit 2000w, can squat 500lb for easy reps
Yup, that’s exactly my point. The strength skillset required to swim 22/50 m paces is comparable to be able to hit those high end wattage on the track 1600-2000 W.
Interesting that this discussion is going on. The first person to swim under 20 seconds for 50SCM happened yesterday.
Here was a photo of him after the race. He’s been in the weight room…
