The long run thread is freaking me out!

Triathlon Forum
1

I’m doing my first (well, first since my only one in ~1992) half ironman this summer, and the half marathon has me worried. All this talk about doing two-three hour runs in prep for an IM seems so unobtainable for me. My long run to date this year is 10 miles on the treadmill at 6:40/mile pace; I “need” to run the half in about 1:30 to attain my goal.

How long need my training runs get to? I’m only running ~20-25 miles per week (in a good week) now.

What do you multi-hour folks do for water? Seems my only choices are a) carry it (I hate it, and I can’t carry that much), b) stow it (who wants to leave a bunch of water bottles scattered around?) or c) run loop courses (just what I want to do: 12 laps of my neighborhood loop).

Also, the water bottle exchange on the bike. I tried it yesterday, and nearly ripped my 7 year old daughter’s arm off. Can I assume that the handers know to move the bottle along with the rider?

I’m rather questioning my sanity in trying to accomplish this. My wife is convinced of my lack of sanity.

2

I do my long runs out in the country on gravel roads. I drive the route first and put out water, gatorade, clif bars, and these hard chunks of raisin bread. Works up to 30 miles, and very likely beyond.

3

I will let others talk about the need for a long run… but I want to pipe in on the ‘water bottle pass’… please please please don’t ASSUME the volunteers know how to pass you a water bottle. They are just good folks out to help out, they may not know anything about how fast you are going and how unstable some people are without two hands on the bars.

Just slow down and grab the bottle like you’re expecting the volunteer to not let go (because a lot of times they don’t have good timing and actually don’t let go when you expect they would).

Practise does help, but it’s a bit much responsibilty for a 7 year old… practise with your friends.

Trev

4

Don’t assume the volunteers know how to hand you a water bottle. Their abilities are all over the scale. You just need to slow down when you go to a bottle exchange or bike aid station.

My long runs for HIM consist of two 4 mile out and backs (total 16 miles) on a dirt trail. I use my car as a water station between each out and back. I’ve also learned to carry a water bottle in my hand. After the first couple miles you forget all out it. I have a fuel belt but think carrying a water bottle is easier.

A 6’40’’ pace for 10 miles is something to be proud of. I can’t imagine you would have any issues taking your long run up to 15 or 16 miles.

Just keep in mind, being able to come close to hitting your run PR on the half marathon portion of a half Ironman all comes down to what kind of cycling condition you are in. I mean, if you exit the bike with fresh legs, you might be able to hold that 6’40’’ pace. But, if you exit the bike with cooked legs, well… a lot less skilled, but smarter, athletes will pass you on the run.

Triathlon is not 3 sports. Its one sport with 3 deciplines. You’ve got to have that balance to be good at it.

5

practise with your friends.

You assume much.

6

How to carry fluids… A buddy of mine works for CamelBak and gave me this new hydration system designed for runners. It holds 28 oz and is super comfy. Have never used my old bottle holder set up since.

7

Uhhh … They have like these fuel belts now … and little fanny packs with bottle holders … It’s a new invention …

8

Two words: Fuel Belt.

I got mine last summer, and it works great. No sloshing, no jiggling. For long runs up to 20 miles, I usually drive out of town to country roads. I have 8 fuel belt bottles. I load up the belt, run 10-12 miles, stop at the car for a pee, switch out the bottles, and I’m off. Very easy.

-Colin

9

Don’t freak out. It’s very simple. 1/2 IM’s are a bit different. A 1:30 - 45 long run should get you through it all things considered. Here’s a great work out that worked well for my girlfriend this past winter getting ready for Ralph’s. Note that she was coming from a real Toronto winter and heading down to sunny california for this. She did the runs outside and the rides on the trainer inside. Build up to the following workout over the course of 6 weeks and top out at 1hour run/2 hour bike/1 hour run, done at roughly 1/2 IM goal paces doing it once a week. Worked well for her. She won her age-group handily and was the 14th woman finisher overall beating a few of the pro women in the process.

Fleck

10

Don’t waste your time running more than 2.5 hrs when training for a triathlon, in fact, for a 1/2, 2 hrs is as much as you need, particularly if you’re doing a 1:30 1/2.

For the bottle/food hand offs I do this. Look at the person you want it from, then point at them. Hold your arm out and snatch the bottle/food from them.

With your daughter, grab her wrist with your right hand, prise the bottle from her fingers with your teeth, then drop her to the ground. Don’t worry, kids heal quickly.

11

For the water exchange, you are doing the right thing to practice. It’s likely that you will have inexperienced people handing up water. Carry enough water with you so that you can miss a stop and not run out and slow down as much as you need to. If it’s a long feed zone, try to grab whatever they are handing out at the beginning, then if you miss it try again at the end of the zone.

My main route for longish runs passes by public parks every few miles that have water fountains. By now I have found them all plus know all of the good pit-stops. Sometimes I also swing by convenience stores to buy drinks— It’s easier to carry $5 than a bottle.

You can go a long way with one long run a week, one hard run, and one recovery run. 25 miles split up as 10 - 15 for the long, 6 or 8 for the hard (including warmup, recovery, warmdown miles), and another 4 or 6 for the recovery run and you should be able to improve fitness. However, 1:30 is a pretty fast run split. You’d have to have great cycling fitness, race the bike leg at a moderate intensity, and be comfortable running a good bit faster than that in training to hit it.

I think a lot of people try to get overly-scientific in their training. If you do one long day, one hard day, and one recovery day for each sport you’ll be able to race at a high level. If you want to get a little fancier you can vary the makeup and duration of the workouts over the course of a month and a full season, but you get most of the benefits with long, hard, and easy workouts each week in each sport.

-Marc

12

The bottle exchange is something I worry about as well. I’m going to drag my girlfriend outside A LOT this summer to pratice hand-ups and filling my aero-bottle on the go.

-C

13

Check gordo’s forum for a 1/2 IM workout suggestion. I did this last weekend and it was a good pacing lesson. this is all done straight thru.

45 min run 20 min build to steady then 25min at steady pace

2.5 hr ride 15 ride, 40/20/40/20 steady/mod hard pace, 15 min ride

45 min run 15 steady then 6x5 min modhard/steady alternate

As gordo put it the key is figuring out how hard to ride and still be able to run the pace you want to run. he also suggested the shorter of 2 hours or predicted race duration as a cap on the long run.

14

10 miles on the treadmill at 6:40/mile pace; I “need” to run the half in about 1:30 to attain my goal. How long need my training runs get to?

If you want to run 7min pace in a half IM, you’d best be able to cruise 15+ miles at 8min pace, the day after your long ride, at a minimum. You’d also best be able to run 4-5 miles after that long ride, at race pace or better. And if you’re not running 1:25 or thereabouts for a standalone real (road) half marathon, you’re dreaming if you think you’re going to run 1:30 in a half IM. Sounds like you might have the speed, but you’ve got to consolidate/solidify it. Oh, also, spend some time on the road, the treadmill will make you strong, at running on a treadmill (Christine Clark’s results notwithstanding). You don’t need 50mpw, but you need quite a bit more than 20, of the right kind of running, probably 5x per week (two transition runs, one tempo run, one long run, one speed or hill work day).

What do you multi-hour folks do for water?

Suck it up and find a way to carry it that you can tolerate, whether that’s handheld(s) with straps, a torso pack with 1 or 2 bottles (there are several that work well), a Fuel Belt with smaller bottles (less bounce), or a Camelbak Flashflo - the latter works great. If your long run is 10 miles on a treadmill, you don’t know from hating carrying water - it takes some getting used to! Acceptance is the first step.

Can I assume that the handers know to move the bottle along with the rider?

No, you can’t. You might have to slow down.

I’m rather questioning my sanity in trying to accomplish this.

Heck yes you can do it! Don’t worry, just prepare (and enjoy the preparing), and go for it.

15

Your freaking out is freaking me out!

Seriously, I could not imagine running 10 miles at 6:40 pace on a treadmill. The other thing is that you don’t need 3-hour runs for a HIM. You still have plenty of time before the summer to increase your long run to at least 90 minutes and your total mileage to 35 per week. No reason to freak out.

For water, I love my ultimate hydration pack. Just pick a solution (Fuel belt, hydration pack) and after using it for a few runs you will forget you are wearing it.

Your wife seems to be a wise woman :slight_smile:

16

I have mapped out several 10+ mile routes leaving from my house that pass by water fountains (parks/public pools/public tennis courts/public golf courses/airports/shopping malls/movie theaters/etc all work well) at 2-3 mile intervals. Be creative. There is always water nearby if you look.

17

A quick suggestion on the bottle exchange from a former volunteer.

As you arrive into the exchange area, pick one volunteer, make eye contact and even point at him/her. It is so much easier to make the exchange when you know which person to give the bottle to.

Sometimes it is easy to think the athlete is aiming at the next volunteer and you can miss the exchange.

18

For me the key to a good half-IM was proper pacing on the bike. Only during the last of about seven half-IMs did I have a run split that was pretty close (within two minutes) for the first and second half of the run. I always started the run feeling pretty good for four or five miles and then just fell apart.

You have to wear a heart rate monitor, use a power meter or be very conscious of perceived effort early on or you will just trash yourself on the bike and be lucky to finish. For me my Half-IM heart rate is 20 beats lower than I would ride at Olympic distance. In my early half-IMs I would ride within about 10 beats of the O-distance heart rate and then within 5 beats as fatigue and heart rate creep set in.

The long run is important, up to two hours maybe, but you also need to have a lot of bike miles to be able to race a half-IM. A good friend of mine who has a 4:05 Half-IM (and a Age-group worlds bronze medal) said that to really race the distance you need to do very close to Ironman volume. Most of us won’t go that fast, but I would take my available time and split it 60/40 between bike and run with a ride of at least 70-80 miles thrown in there. My good half-IM run was preceded by 8-10 weeks of 8-12 hour bike weeks. If you don’t have that much time for the bike then you should be prepared to adjust your goals accordingly. I’m a 1:13 half marathon runner, but I only managed a 1:30 split twice in seven attempts and one of those was a 1:29:30ish.

Good luck. Racing well at half-IM requires a lot of work. Plus you have to figure out how much you need to eat. Not as hard as Ironman, but no walk in the park.

Chad

19

What fuel belt do you use? I used to have the “that which does not destroy me…” additude towards hydration on my long runs but have decided to change this approach - in prep for my first IM this summer (LP)

How many ounces total can you carry? I’m in a pretty hot humid climate and sweat alot.

Any recommendation for how to carry the most water comfortably?

Jude

“The race is a celebration of your training”.

20

I’ve got the 4-bottle belt. It comes with four 7-ounce bottles, so you carry about the same as a large bottle. I bought 4 replacement bottles, so I can switch them out quickly during a long run. In my marathon last december, my parents came to watch, and they drove alongside me for a while while my mom handed me fresh bottles. You can also buy 10-ounce bottles that fit in the same belt (it’s stretchy).

I really like it, and it enables me to do a long run without stopping (I can do 10-12 miles on the 28 ounces). I used to stach bottles on loops, and stop every few miles to drink. Now I don’t have to do that. I’ve also never had any problems with sloshing nor bobbing.

One thing I have experienced is stomach problems at the end of longer events (marathon and 1/2-IM). I think that it was just me, and not the belt, but I did take it off at the end of the marathon. But in another 1/2IM (the one I did well in), I had absolutly no problems.

I think that for IM this year I"m going to go without it, and rely on water from the course. WIS will be my first really well run event where I can depend on the aid stations. I’d like to run without it in the race to be lighter. But it is a perfect training aid.

-Colin