Yeah although having just done it, it reminded me it does kind of suck. The Energy Lab has become iconic but it really sucks. They used to have T2 down in Keahou, which is at the afore mentioned far south side of Ali’i. Creates some logistical challenges but if there is room down in the old “Pit” they used to call it, maybe an option.
Not that they’d do it, but there’s always the possibility of doing what T100 do and give the pros a slightly different course than the age groupers. It would go against the IM ethos, but in theory you could send the pros down to the energy lab and make the age groupers do 2 laps in town.
Otherwise, you could go the Norseman route and set a time / athlete limit. Before a certain time or number of people, you do the energy lab. After that time, you run the same distance but in town.
Not that they’d do it or even should, but that would certainly appeal to all the “Kona is too easy now that they’ve done xyz” crowd
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Color me as one that loves (and also hates) the run course. The challenge of that course (rolling hills, no shade on the queen k, desolate, palani hill, energy lab) is what makes that course interesting and epic. It’s hard as hell but I love the challenge. I don’t really have any interest in running the whole thing in town on multiple loops.
Whatever they do, don’t touch the run course. We don’t need to make it easier so it’s interesting for people.
If, however, it’s a case of changing the run course to appease local stakeholders…well, change it yesterday.
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Do you really think it would appease the locals? They will barely notice a decrease in road closures and they will still only see the negative. They will see the 4000-5000 or more people that come to their island and take it over for a week to week and half. They will still be angry at cyclists, runners, and pedestrians who don’t obey traffic signals. They will still be upset that their local establishments are overcrowded and patrons are rude. The list goes on.
I just don’t see how opening the roads sooner will somehow magically make the locals happy enough to allow us 2 days of racing.
They won’t but the politicians just need something to point to so they can say they did something.
Two years with no events wasn’t enough to appease the locals.
I find it hilarious that earlier in this thread we were discussing the merits of what made for a good championship course, and how that might be used to draw more people into long course triathlon and now the consensus seems to be “the Kona run course sucks but that’s part of its charm”
At ironman barcelona there was not so much rolldown for Nice 2025. I think the biggest rolldown was in M40-44 where it went up to 22nd place (with 9 slots). In other age groups, very few didn’t take their slot.
I think the politicians would never hear the end of it from the locals if they did something like that. It would be a great way to not get re-elected.
In the opposite corner, the course changes that IM has made over the last two editions in Lake Placid, along with the heavy investment in community involvement, have improved relations there. There’s still anger in places heavily impacted by the bike route, as well as those businesses in town that athletes don’t often frequent – but it was the best I’d seen overall community reaction in 5+ years.
Little things matter.
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but thats not really being discussed the question is how can you cause less issues for the island on race day .
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100 percent .
Yeah Ironman would do this all day and twice on Sunday if it means they get two days in Kona.
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x3
I was in Lake Placid training this summer and the reception from the community was quite a bit different from 10 years ago.
In terms of changing the Kona run course, well if you change that, then you just as easily move the entire race to Cairns, or Nice, or Port Elizabeth, or Frankfurt. All the discussions that @Bryancd makes about the legacy of the course being thrown out in a day happens if you change the course too!!!
@Bryancd you still did not answer if you ever raced outside USA?
I see that at IMBarcelona slot uptake for Nice was solid according to one of the posting on this thread. We would expect that given the location, You can ride your bike in Barcelona to Nice in a couple of days (i’ve done that so I guess you can) so I would expect slot uptake to be high there !!!
Personally, I’m a lot less likely to go to Kona again if it’s 2 days even if they’re a week apart.
Anyone coming from Europe stays a week minimum anyways. The travel and jet lag are too extreme to stay anything less than that. So it makes us notice the impact on costs and accomodation more than Americans. If your time difference is small, or have direct flights, you can consider going to Kona for a weekend. But from Europe it’s -11/-12 with 24h+ flights each way.
I can see how 2 days a week apart could be interesting for Ironman and for US based folks.
From my experience, 2022 was crazy, 2024 was a lot more enjoyable.
And despite inflation, 2024 was cheaper than 2022. Some things were particularly dramatic. My 2024 car rental was a third of 2022 for a bigger car.
I do also wonder if a 2-day Kona would eventually lose a bit of steam. People have been comparing Kona Vs Nice slot allocations when in fact the past few years were truly unusual. Nice slots were artificially inflated (more slots in less time) and for Kona deflated (less slots in more time) due to calendar and how things were changed on course.
The run course in Kona without the energy lab is an interesting idea.
I don’t think it would make it necessarily easier. In fact, it would easily have the same elevation gain (if not more if you’re still making people go up Kuakini and/or Palani).
It has the potential benefit of reducing the number of aid stations and number of volunteers required. On the other hand it might make them a bit overcrowded (aid stations in Nice and other IMs do get really crowded).
The run course has been changed in Kona previously, as I pointed out. And no I have not, although it’s irrelevant as I’m not arguing that non-US races are somehow inferior or lacking enthusiasm. If anything, a lot of them look fantastic. I am arguing that there is a distinction from a really great Ironman race and the world championship being held in Hawaii in the minds of the consumers.
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I see your point and its a valid one but I think it will take a lot more than just a course change to appease the locals. Lake Placid has an influx of people for 3-4 days and a 1 day race. Kona has an influx for 7-10 days and a lot more people than Lake Placid. Add the fact we are potentially adding a 2nd day of racing in Kona with another ~2500 competitors + support crews, the impact that has on Kona is an added variable you have to overcome that Lake Placid doesn’t have.
Didn’t WTC already float the idea with Kona, about having a second day further apart, whether it be a week, or several months? I thought the town gave a firm ‘no’, said one day per year, period.
Yes they did. But some are now asking what if we were to lessen the impact to locals like changing the run course which would reduce/lessen road closures. Do things like that change the locals minds enough to allow 2 days of racing?
To be fair, LP has an influx of athletes every weekend from May 15th through mid September. Training camps and athlete behavior during them was one of the major solves that IM had to work through during the contract renewal.
Understand your point about orders of magnitude. But, again, taking community feedback and coming back with actionable changes would simply be part of the conversation.
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