Surely 2x 3000 participants (or even 1500 + 3000) is better financially than 1x 2500. For a 2 day WC, you can reuse all your signage one day to the next, you’ve set up your merch and volunteer tents once, etc.
Plus, you have to assume that IM is paying full rate to close the roads and set up in Kona and without a hosting fee. A rotating WC could not only have the city bid a modest hosting fee, but would likely also throw in the associated costs for closing roads, etc.
Travel to Kona for your staff is also going to be more expensive vs anywhere else, and moving signage, mech, etc isn’t going to be cheap on a Pacific island
The economics of hosting a WC isn’t as straightforward as “women’s numbers are lower for a 1 day event”
@devashish_paul I’m inclined to think that a single day WC event in Kona is a preferable route as it stands for both Ironman and for professionals, amateurs, and brand partners. More than one pro expressed the desire to see the race back together in Hawaii and felt winning the title elsewhere did not provide the same level of prestige or brand interest. I know from conversations with brands at the expo Nice wasn’t a good value proposition relative to Kona. And I had mentioned before in my N=1 I have spoken to women who did Nice but would rather just have Kona as an annual option. I readily acknowledge others will feel differently.
@timbasile The fact that IM lost quite a bit of money on Nice 2024 came from someone I know who works at IM and others have affirmed that in other threads on the topic of that race. That still could be incorrect but I’m very inclined to believe that to be a matter of fact.
I have heard from someone at Florida today, women Kona slots didn’t roll much at all, men’s Nice slots went into the 20-30 range with a few “is anyone here”, so somewhat similar to California. I’m not clear if all Nice slots found a buyer.
I’m not disputing that they lost money on the women’s Nice WC. But this is a temporary solution which will likely stop after 2026.
My point was that a rotating, 2 day WC after 2026 won’t be a loss leader in the way that Nice lost money, even if the women’s day is only 1500 competitors.
Oh I see, so instead of the split date format, you are advocating for a 2 day event that moves location. In conversations with my friend at IM they are not willing to give up Kona, its value to the brand is too high. And just making it a regular IM would likely negatively impact that value. Kona is the only IM 95% of the non-triathlon centric know about.
HI @Bryancd I think you have the confirmation bias of being in Kona, Of course people who are in Kona will say Kona is the place it should be, but ask the people in Los Angeles if the Dodgers should take the world series title back to Brooklyn. Eventually people move on. The franchise can be anywhere. It does not need to be in Kona. It just takes a bit of time and people move on.
As Desertdude said, once you pull the plug on Kona, then the championship value will shine in any location.
Yeah I’m don’t agree with that conclusion and I know Ironman has no interest in throwing in the towel on Kona. To dismiss the comments of others as simply being “because” they are in Kona is silly.
But that’s not relevant to this thread, I just wanted a place to curate the slot info for these three races.
@Bryancd hey I did not dismiss your position. Read carefully. I said you have confirmation bias by talking to people in Kona. If you talked to people in Nice or Copenhagen, or Dubai, or Port Elisabeth, of London, they may not have the same view (they may have the same view as you, they may not). I am pointing out that your interview of people who are in Kona itself, of course biases the conclusion they will have because they JUST INVESTED in being in Kona. It’s like most people who buy a stock. They sit on the stock because they get emotionally tied to it, often not selling it when there are other opportunities. Of course swapping out Kona is not as easy as swapping out stock ownership on Nasdaq, but some of the same psychoglogy ends up taking hold. We all like what we are familiar with, when there may be better options!!!
…and along those lines, I like what I have invested in, which is qualifying for and traveling to several rotating two day dual gender events at Ironman 70.3 worlds. Literally the location is secondary to the people who come together wherever the event is held !!!
We’ll see, but since my job is to actually invest other peoples money in stocks, if Kona and Nice were equities I would get long Kona and short Nice. one thing I feel with some certainty, I would strive to disabuse everyone from the notion IM will give up on Kona. Not going to happen even if it solves their problems
It would be cool to get ST organized and have a volunteer each race to scribble the rolldown numbers to share, since the company won’t make them available.
what ironman should do was a mock test ie also ask the room how would people chose if they would take a slot for the other desitnation
so today should have asked florida females also who would take a slot for nice 2025 and males for kona how would that impact uptake…
and then do the same in europe south america etc etc
we can guess or we could ask which might not be perfect but better than guessing …
The Facebook groups can be particularly useful for this. I find Facebook groups for specific races to be very good resources, far more useful than Slowtwitch if you want to connect with other participants, share race specific info, etc.
Maybe, but the answer might be different when it’s hypothetical. If you’re really taking the slot, you’re whipping out your credit card on the spot, plus planning the future expense of the trip.
Also the baseball analogy is very flawed. Baseball revenue is derived from TV and ticket sales. IM is a participation event where the location matters to the customers.
You missed the investment options. You can invest in Nice vs Kona or Kona vs Nice.
I am staying there is a better option, which is cut the chord with Kona and a two day rotating worlds with 6000 athletes!!!
To better understand the sport having grown, go look at all the Kona race winners this year. They are from all around the world and few from USA. This means there is a massive funnel of athletes from elsewhere to produce overall age group winners. That means there is deep competition all around the world. Will they care as much to race in Kona, or do they just want to race the best in the world anywhere?
There are no American winners since Tim DeBoom in 2003 at this point. They came from all over the world. They likely will race anywhere.
This speaks to the volume of growth of the sport globally. This can be capitalized on without being stuck with the baggage of catering to the town of Kona. Internationally athletes are just into the sport. They may or may not care for Kona to the same degree. Their participation in the 70.3 worlds suggests to me, there are enough who just care about the racing (they go to 70.3 worlds which DOES sell out without it being in Kona).
one thing I feel with some certainty, I would strive to disabuse everyone from the notion IM will give up on Kona. Not going to happen even if it solves their problems