tl;dr (isn’t it nice to have this up front?) Having bottle launch issues on occasion and I know I need to run larger bottles due to nutrition/hydration needs. I have Xlab gorilla cages behind the saddle. Looking for advice on my behind the saddle setup, and any recommendations on 750ml/25oz+ bottles.
Long version:
Normally I wouldn’t post this, but instead dive deeper into my own research. Problem is with the update, some of the pictures in older threads aren’t working and I have limited time between training, work, and the family. I’m also in a time crunch as my last race rehearsal to test everything out is this Saturday, and my race is in two week, with this is my big personal PR effort season closer. Hence… time crunch crisis post.
I’ve been on a deep dive with a lot of Dr Alex Harrison’s input on hydration/nutrition. After running the Saturday app for a bit and feeling great, I know I’m going to need at least 750ml/25oz bottles in my behind the saddle cages to meet my hydration needs and can’t afford to launch a bottle. I have been running standard size ~22oz bottles in my behind the saddle Xlab gorilla cages for years and have occasionally had the loose bottle, and 2-3 bottle launches on some very rough roads. I’m dependent on my own nutrition on the bike because Mortal does not work with me, which has been a huge disadvantage because I could tolerate Gatorade endurance. I also prefer my own carb/sodium ratios.
Reference race Eagleman70.3 photo with a loose bottle:
The cheap bottles with the deeper indentations were normally good to me, but I did just lose one on my race rehearsal 2 weeks ago (granted it was a really rough stretch of road). Chatty70.3 last year had some pretty rough stretches of road and I had a loose bottle there that was shy of launching. Not sure if this is just a matter of the carbon cages getting weaker over time and not gripping as well. My additional concern is that the larger bottles will magnify the issue if little things aren’t addressed.
My major question in regard to my problem is:
Do I need to angle the bottle cages more to deter vertical road force vibration/bumps from working the bottles up?
Add skateboard grip tape to the inside of the cages?
Cheap race bottle recommendations that are 750ml/25oz and rear cage friendly? I’ve seen a few options on Amazon here.
I had my concerns that a rubber band or some type of retention band wouldn’t work with the larger bottles, but seeing the visual here definitely made me realize how practical this option could be. Couldn’t get the pictures to load in some of the other threads to see it. Thank you for sharing this, it’s definitely going to be an option for me. Having to fiddle a little more with the bottle with the reassurance it’s still there verse being down a bottle is a good trade off to me.
The angle of the bottles are pretty important I would start with them vertical for sure. Also a good old fashion rubber band that goes around the top helps alot. Although that does require you to be comfortable with taking them out and putting them back in. You can see some examples of from NICE
I use these bottles with your exact BTS setup. The mouth piece is a hard plastic which isn’t great but once I’m riding I don’t notice it. They seem pretty robust. I have had them launch before but only after some very hard hits but haven’t broken yet. I’ll be following your thread for advise about keeping them in place better.
Overtime, the carbon on cages will wear, just like plastic cages albeit at a much slower pace. Wear can be due to a variety of factors, like dirt on the bottle causing abrasion, or keeping bottles in the cages for a long period of time causing the carbon weave to change and get looser.
Matte cages wear faster than Gloss cages due to the Gloss having that clear coat. Not suprisingly, from that logic - Gloss cages tend to grip better than Matte cages as well.
Gorilla Cages, as do all of our carbon cages, have a lifetime warranty, so feel free to reach out to our team, and we can look more closely at the cage condition and see if we see an abnormal issue.
Solutions:
Vertically positioned cages definitely help with the launching, due to the Gorilla’s high cage sides. If you are experiencing launching try to adjust the angle if that is comfortable for you, otherwise the XT version might be better
Skateboard tape does help, but note this will wear your bottles down fast!
Check the hardware of your Turbo Wing, especially the mounting area on your saddle. If you have removed the carrier at any point, make sure the bolts that attach the unit to the seat rails have threadlocker applied. A somewhat loose rear carrier can pass along more road vibrations to the cages which can result in the bottle slowly rising and out of the cage like you see in the picture.
Bottles - The bottles you have are ones we would recommend, with a deep neck groove. This helps the Gorilla cage’s tab latch onto the bottle.
Feel free to email me, and I can pass along your information to my team here and they can help see what’s going! candice@airobike.com
Candice, awesome information. I bought them second hand a few years ago to replace another BTS setup that wasn’t working for me, so I don’t think I’d be eligible for the warranty. Regardless, I’ve enjoyed everything XLab that I’ve purchased, so I’ll likely purchase new replacements next year for the long haul reassurance and added grip of the xt, based on other recommendations here.
Sounds like a plan Chris and you are very welcome!
We sometimes have Gorilla XTs show up in our Outlet section too that come with a pretty heavy discount, so definitely check that out when you are looking for them. Don’t think we have any at the moment though, but our stock changes all the time
Once the rider has their ability to reach and remove the bottle comfortably, aero is pretty important and a more horizontal position does typically test faster. LCB tested 6w faster (compared to a single angled bottle) with two bottles on the rear of the Wove V8 using our bottle retention loops to keep them secure in that more horizontal position.
I use the Specialized zee cages (on all bikes, including MTB and gravel). I’ve NEVER lost a bottle from one of these cages. I run 2 BTS as you do and they work fantastic with any bottle I’ve used.
When assessing BTS cages, the biggest thing to look for is if there are structural parts of the cage that can move and open up the inner diameter of the cage, loosening the cage’s grip on the bottle when the bike goes over bumps. With the Zee cage, that’s a big Yes. Place a 950ml bottle full of liquid in the cage and it won’t last over a minor pump. And, the plastic version of that specific cage is notorious for breaking. Sideload cages for down tubes on frames with small inner triangles, for sure; for BTS, not a great idea with large bottles.
Also along these lines of the cage opening up over bumps, are cages with splits - these splits are there for manufacturing purposes, to make removing the cage from the metal tooling possible during manufacturing without the need for complex puzzle like tooling. When there is a bottle with over 28oz of liquid in one of these split cages and the rider goes over a bump, the weight of the bottle moves downward and the split in the cage spreads open and the inside diameter of the cage becomes larger, and bottles are lost.
One common solution for the most popular cages currently on the market used for BTS bottles is for these cages to reduce the inside diameter of their cages and to increase the cage wall thickness. This does hold the bottle better, but it also makes inserting and removing the bottle more difficult. And, those cages still have splits for manufacturing purposes.
An ideal BTS solution is a cage with no splits, with the ‘tongue’ of the cage on the bottom when the cage is mounted upside down (Topeak did this first, though they and newer versions currently in the market have a split on the bottom of the cage that opens the cage up over bumps), and a bottle retention loop/rubber band because with hitting 120+ carbs becoming more and more important, and achieving that with on-course nutrition being about impossible, not losing bottled nutrition is critical.
Just gotta say, I recently got a few bottle retention loops for you and they’re great. I run Gorilla XT cages and typically use the large 1L PF&H bottles. I also really like the Polar bottle you included. The cap is excellent, doesn’t leak when mounted backwards BTA, and has good flow.
Thanks Nick. Are there any vids of the loop in action; I’ve searched yt to no avail.
Is the plan to start with the loop on and keep replacing it after each drink? What’s the thought process…
