We put this story up late on Friday, but it has been very quiet here. I guess everyone was busy racing, training or just relaxing with family.
http://www.slowtwitch.com/...ping_past__4314.html
Lots of comment already within the article.
I think he only got two years because (correct me if I’m wrong), if you come clean and admit wrong doing, you get a two year ban. LA didn’t admit to anything, and was banned for life.
The article is interesting but until the WADA rules are changed, they are what they are. The viewpoints are pretty predictable:
- Forgiveness; they should be free to race after their ban
- Bans should be longer
- Bans should be lifetime
- They should be hanged by the neck until dead
I don’t fault your judgment that certain performances infer doping but unless they are caught by failing a test or confess, they are unfortunately just inferences.
"The bike split of Guerra at Ironman 70.3 California at Oceanside was actually even more stunning than his time in Monterrey. After a 29:20 swim Guerra caught both Andrew Starykowicz and 70.3 World Champion Sebastian Kienle who had started the bike segment 5:20 and 3:45 ahead of the Spaniard. The catch of Starykowicz and Kienle was made around mile 40. Starykowicz was not 100 percent, but both he and Kienle dominated the other Pros as they typically do. In the end Starykowicz had a 2:10:22 split and Kienle a 2:10:40, but Guerra ended with a 2:06:45 on a course that is considered extremely difficult. He then pulled out of the race during the run."
You’re doing it wrong! Signed- Chris Lieto
and then you have Tyson Gay who got a 1 year ban from USADA??
"The bike split of Guerra at Ironman 70.3 California at Oceanside was actually even more stunning than his time in Monterrey. After a 29:20 swim Guerra caught both Andrew Starykowicz and 70.3 World Champion Sebastian Kienle who had started the bike segment 5:20 and 3:45 ahead of the Spaniard. The catch of Starykowicz and Kienle was made around mile 40. Starykowicz was not 100 percent, but both he and Kienle dominated the other Pros as they typically do. In the end Starykowicz had a 2:10:22 split and Kienle a 2:10:40, but Guerra ended with a 2:06:45 on a course that is considered extremely difficult. He then pulled out of the race during the run."
He blew up to catch those guys on the bike. Here’s the rub and what I inferred from the article: Starky and Kienle are already statistical anomalies among a group of athletes that are already “freaks” if you will. To catch and pass them just doesn’t seem plausible, especially given that Guerra never made a career of TT, unless he’s doping.
Where there’s smoke there’s usually fire.
It is like there is an infomercial recruiting disgraced cyclists caught doping to come to triathlon.
I’m not a big fan of Starky, but this I applaud:
Andrew Starykowicz offered a few choice words for Guerra while together in the lead group at Ironman 70.3 Oceanside.
“I called a spade a spade, I called him a doper to his face. He started yelling and swearing at me in Spanish. In my mind, once a doper always a doper. Once you cross over that line to cheat, doping, drafting, etc. it is a lot easier to do it again and after a while it appears these athletes become oblivious to the rules,” said Starykowicz. “Is triathlon a second chance for these athletes? No.”
…
Tyson Gay supposedly also gave a ton of closed door testimony supposedly naming names not only in T&F but other sports as well. He also voluntarily gave back his olympic medal.
Compare that to the 18mo ban that Powell got who didn’t provide anything to the Jamacian ADA.
Then ask yourself why a shorter ban for doing something more enhancing vs a longer ban for doing something less enhancing.
The only thing worse than Cycling is track and field…they are both in a state of complete dissaray! At least Pro Bodybuilding got it right, they basically allow everything so the playing field is even…may the best man win!
I agree. USAT&F should certainly be investigated as well and definitely not in charge of investigating themselves. I debate if T&F or cycling is more dirty right now and almost think it’s T&F.
"The bike split of Guerra at Ironman 70.3 California at Oceanside was actually even more stunning than his time in Monterrey. After a 29:20 swim Guerra caught both Andrew Starykowicz and 70.3 World Champion Sebastian Kienle who had started the bike segment 5:20 and 3:45 ahead of the Spaniard. The catch of Starykowicz and Kienle was made around mile 40. Starykowicz was not 100 percent, but both he and Kienle dominated the other Pros as they typically do. In the end Starykowicz had a 2:10:22 split and Kienle a 2:10:40, but Guerra ended with a 2:06:45 on a course that is considered extremely difficult. He then pulled out of the race during the run."
You’re doing it wrong! Signed- Chris Lieto
I think this raises a critical issue in the article…there is a lot of extrapolating and innuendo associated with the article. Statements regarding these athletes (lack of) professional cycling TT results and then saying “but jeez…look at these bike splits! He beat Kienle, but even Kienle beat LA…and we all know what LA did!!!” Using that logic, why aren’t we putting Kienle under the microscope and saying “Hey, wait a minute…you beat LA by how much? Hmmmm…that seems a little funky.”
Not only that, but critical issues are glossed over…like the fact that in this case, Guerra didn’t even finish the race, or in the other examples, what their finishing time / position was. As we all know, the tri world is littered with people who over-bike and then blow-up on the run (or don’t care about the run or whatever).
Focusing only on the bike leg results and implying that something is amiss seems a bit disingenuous to me.
You guys have it all wrong, it is not cycling or T&F that are the dirtiest sports, it is american football. Maybe even soccer. There are sports that have little oversight and have the same drug history of cycling and T&F. Since we now know that even with the super strict testing and circumstantial busts in those two sports, and there are still guys trying to beat it, pretty sure in those other two it is anything goes pretty much still. I would bet that if you went to practice of any football team one day and just popped a test on everyone unannounced, you would find at least a 90% positive. The other 10% would just have forgotten to take their pills that morning. Really a joke, but no one really seems to care that 300+lb dudes running straight into each other are doped to the gills. And same goes for soccer, so big and popular that fans just don’t really care.
It is like there is an infomercial recruiting disgraced cyclists caught doping to come to triathlon.
I’m not a big fan of Starky, but this I applaud:
Andrew Starykowicz offered a few choice words for Guerra while together in the lead group at Ironman 70.3 Oceanside.
“I called a spade a spade, I called him a doper to his face. He started yelling and swearing at me in Spanish. In my mind, once a doper always a doper. Once you cross over that line to cheat, doping, drafting, etc. it is a lot easier to do it again and after a while it appears these athletes become oblivious to the rules,” said Starykowicz. “Is triathlon a second chance for these athletes? No.”
…
I don’t and won’t applaud that…that is just Starky being an asshat…again (IMO).
The guy did his time, served his penalty. If you have a problem with that, take it up with WADA.
I don’t buy into the idea that “once a doper (drafter, course-cutter, etc) always a doper.” I fully understand the pressure that was on these guys to dope back in the 90’s & 00’s. They clearly made mistakes, but it WAS the culture of the sport. That does NOT excuse it…far from it.
We all make mistakes in life…just because you make a mistake, doesn’t mean you habitually make the same mistake for the rest of your life.
So how often do pro triathletes actually get tested? Here’s the only article I’ve really seen that mentions frequency of testing, but it’s for high profile T&F pros. I imagine it’s much less for the majority of pro triathletes. Are they tested after every race? Should they?
http://www.runnersworld.com/elite-runners/galen-rupp-most-drug-tested-us-runner-first-half-of-2013
TLDR: Galen Rupp was tested 19 times the first six months of 2013. Shalane 12 times in same period.
and then you have Tyson Gay who got a 1 year ban from USADA??
And Carl Lewis never got suspended and still has Ben Johnson’s medal.
Was thinking about this article while on my run the other day.
One part of the article that jumped at me is the bike split times. They made me think about my past history I personally experienced in another sport I competed in. I was a professional MX athlete and wanted to drop down a class when I started getting older. The rules permitted me to stop from competing for one year then I was allowed to come back to compete.
Before I came back to competition I asked myself a question.
The question is this: How does this particular athlete or how do I conduct myself when I am allowed to re-enter competition?
I do not believe this sports dopers ask themselves this question. There is no type of counseling or parole officer assigned to these people afterwards to help with the processes of getting back into the grove of racing again. I personally didn’t want the reputation of being a cherry picker after being looked up to as a local professional.
If I was to give a lesson or advice to some of these idiots is to not WIN when you return! Don’t come off a 2 year penalty for doping then enter a race and win….are you kidding me? Being already in the public’s eye, looking for redemption for future sponsors and new fans, why come back and clean up?. I sure didn’t. I gave the wins in the amateur class to the amateurs. I took 5ths and 8ths. It was the mature thing to do as per everyone had a watchful eye on the ex-pro who dropped down a class.
Back the jokers in this article. People are now looking at you closely and you just took away a trophy from a non cheater. Or ripped a bike split to make our heroes look like beginners. This behavior is not liked no matter how you look at it. They are idiots and hence why they doped and got caught.
Why not come back slowly. Take an 8th……then a 5th…….slowly come back so it is not so obvious when on your quest to prove to the public that you made a mistake. If I see a guy who was convicted and coming back to race and is mid pack, I would find it easier to like that person again even after their conviction.
The cyclists in this article………
What a bunch of jokers.
It varies on the Pros, but some are tested very often.
IMO I think people really under estimate how much pushing the line goes on in Triathlon.
I thought the same. The inferences in the article that these 2 guys are still doping are pretty strong. Seems like this cuts pretty close to breaching ST rules, but I guess if it’s just inferences then it’s OK…
I agree with the first response to the article. One doping conviction should be a lifetime ban from all sports. Everyone who is caught has a great reason how it happened and they are so sorry. Would they be so sorry if they were never caught?