Just wondering if anyone out there has tried out the big slam position that John Cobb has written about. I’ve spent the last 3 years trying to get comfortable in the tri-position…been fitted by a very reputable fitter, tried a number of different seats…and yet, there’s still no joy in mudville.
If you are set up in the slam position, how did you come by it?? i.e. did you just follow his notes, or did you have somebody else set you up? most importantly…how do you like it and what has been your experience with it while racing.
Since I only have a road bike, it was my only option, as I wanted it to still ride well as a road bike (it does), but be raceworthy as a Tri bike too (it is).
Got fitted (by Paul Levine, Serotta dude). I’m a little higher and less aero than I think I’d “like”, but I can’t argue w/ my results. I’m not quite a sail, but my back isn’t flat, that’s for sure.
I am also VERY comfortable - there is a LOT to be said for that.
I’ve yet to be convinced that the slam position is anything other than a basic road position applied to a time trial bike. Which seems to me to defeat the purpose of a time trial bike.
I have my dedicated tri bike set-up in what amounts to a slammed position-74-75 degree seat angle w/ very minimal drop. While it flies in the face of the ST-conventional-fit-wisdom, I could never get comfortable on a steep angle set-up w/a big drop (FYI-I am 6’3" 210lbs.- I think this fit works especiallly well for big riders). While it does not look aero, it is demonstrably faster than my road set-up. Most importantly, it is very comfortable. I can ride in my aero bars 99% of the time in this position even on long rides. I could never stay in them more than about 70% of the time on a steeper ride. Not surprisingly, I run faster off the bike w/ this set-up, because my body doesn’t hurt from the bad (for me ) position.
Anyway, to answer your specific question, I think a pro fit is required. As suggested, a Serotta fitter will gravitate toward this kind of fit. My Serotta CXII fits me like a glove and I am very sold on their fit method. Tim Troha of Sports Garage in Boulder fit me-if you live in Colo., I recommend him highly.
FYI-I am 6’3" 210lbs.- I think this fit works especiallly well for big riders
Interesting. My guess, and it’s only a guess, is that it has more to do with your physical proportions- how long your legs and arms are, and your torso. Any idea on those measurements?
I always thought that this position is the best choice for bikes with slacker seat tube angles, respectivly road bikes.
Moving your seat back on a Triathlon-specific frame that is designed around a steep seat position makes for a really unstable ride (ever tried a unicycle?).
Even more unstable as putting a moderately forward seatpost and full areobars on a roadbike.
I always thought that this position is the best choice for bikes with slacker seat tube angles, respectivly road bikes.
Caveat: These are only my uninformed opinions, and are quite possibly exactly wrong. I can’t seem to find much in the way of substantive information about the slam.
It might be the best position, if you’re forced to ride a bike with a slack seat tube. (Due to the fact that it opens your hip angle up pretty well. I think it must generally be problematical to ride both slack and aero, and at the same time maintain a suitable hip angle.)
What I’m saying is this- it doesn’t seem very aero. It seems like a basic road position. So I guess it would be fine- necessary, maybe even- for a road bike with clip-ons. But if you have a tri bike and you’re trying to get aero, I don’t think that goal is best achieved by the slam.
Thanks for the feedback. I’m also a big rider 6’2" 200. I’m currently riding a soloist with the seat in the forward position…so i’m guessing I can just flip it around and go from there. The only other option I can see is to get a stem with more rise to bring me up higher and hopefully relieve the god-awful pressure.
I have all the numbers from my current fit…so I can easily go back if I don’t like things.
What I’m saying is this- it doesn’t seem very aero. It seems like a basic road position. So I guess it would be fine- necessary, maybe even- for a road bike with clip-ons. But if you have a tri bike and you’re trying to get aero, I don’t think that goal is best achieved by the slam.
Totally agree.
A good road position is already pretty aero (if you are flexible enough to ride a good drop- I ride at about 12cm). There is way too much hype about the SLAM position.
It is basically a good power position (seat back and low) combined with something to hold on up front (short extensions) for leverage.
What I discovered is that it does not give me that much more of an aero-advantage (although I get about 1-3 km/h faster when in this position and driving it - probably due to the elbows being tucked in and the additional leverage with my arms).
For me the primary reason I keep using it is the additional hand positions I get out of it, allowing me to use different muscle groups on my long rides and a thereby reduced overall fatique. Although I probably get more benefits out of it on a flat course… The minimal aero-advantage just makes up for the additional weigth, which is in my case a mere 280g (custom clip-ons).
From my experience (N=1) It is pretty much a standard road fit. That is then tweaked to make it work reasonably well for riding in clip on aero bars. I don’t think it is any more aero than riding in the drops, truth be told. (Well, your arms are more aero anyway) But, it is a lot more comfy to do so for extended periods of time.
I happen to have Profile split second clip ons on it (they were hand-me-downs from a buddy.) To get 'em to work properly in this position, they are as far back as they can possibly go, then the excess is cut off so I don’t smash the shit outta my knees while climbing standing (I do need to be aware of the armrests while doing that however).
For me, the primary reason I use this position is cuz I’m too cheap to spring for a Tri bike.
Unlike most other SLAM position riders, I don’t honk on the bars hard at all, or very rarely. (Maybe when powering up a roller in a bit bigger gear than I aughta) I know that is supposedly one of the benefits of this position, but I try to minimize upper body involvement in my riding - that’s what my legs are for.
I am 6’3", 210lbs as well and my bike is set up in a Big Slam style. The seat is actually a little further forward than my normal road/cyclocross position but it is not steep by any means. I have never really ridden a steep bike so I do not know if I would be better with one. I do know that I have trouble with my neck if I try to go too low in front.
Regarding a flat back. I recall reading, maybe from John Cobb, that it was most important to have a flat chest (chest more or less parallel to the gound) and that a flat back was just a refinement on this basic aero requirement. If you position yourself so your chest is more or less flat then you are not as far forward or low in the front and yet still are pretty good aero wise.
Also, I notice that the faster time trialers may or may not be low in front but they all seem to block their knees with their arms/elbows when it the aero position as viewed from the front.
The Serotta is custom. The bike was made w/a slacker than normal seat angle-74 to 75-because that fit me well. The seat is not pushed back;it is on the middle of a no set-back post. Handles perfectly. Not exactly “slam”, but closer to that than a Slowman type fit. COuld be accomplished easily on a Soloist.
The point of the slam is to preserve your hip angle. Also, it is applying a tri type position (well…sort of) to a road bike not the other way around. Lots of pro cyclists are riding this way on their time trial bikes (with UCI mandated slack seat tube angles). What is nice about a slam position is that you are not putting too much weight on the front end of the bike and screwing up the handling. As you pointed out, when you just throw tri bars on a road bike you often (not always) end up with the front end too high or the hip angle to closed. The Slam is just a better way to ride aero bars on a road bike. Don’t know if it is more aero but it is more comfortable.
I wrote a review a few years back. I started in the SLAM position, and slowly gravitated towards a UCI legal position with my back completely flat, so quite different than the SLAM
