Lately there seems to be a rash of folks just arguing against anything that a so-called ST “expert” posts. They are like the anti-technologists in Pirsigs books (Zen and the art…) or the people that brought down civilization in ‘Atlas Shrugged’
I went from a rookie know nothing triathlete to a full-time professional coach, fitter and got a bunch faster to boot by listening to people on this website who know more than me. And likely more than you. If you are arguing with Slowman, AC, Tom A, Robert Chung, Al Morrison, Jason, psycholist, and Paulo Sousa you had better be real good at this triathlon thing. And there are certainly others, really just average guys who paid attention. Ken Lehner, Barry P, John Cobb, rroof, even roady, GregX and many, many more… they are pretty up to speed on all things biking, tri and speed related. Not that everything all these people say is correct, but it would be at very least a hypothesis based on years of experience and far more than n=1 case studies.
To paraphrase, “your gut doesn’t trump a ton of science.” It’s as if many here operate from the prime directive of “I know if I just go real hard and my face turns red then I’ll get faster and position be damned and equipment be damned and tried and true training be damned as well.”
So to you the average Joe triathlete, sit back and learn something, don’t be so argumentative.
You don’t always learn more by questioning, sometimes you just need to listen to those who know. And in this crowd that is not me…I don’t know much, but I know how to know more.
I too have had great success from the aero weenie and fit tips on this website. I am a FOP cycist and BOP runner and I’m not overweight. Its entirely due to me getting a good position, on a good frame, with good tires, and good wheels. I’m probably getting 3 free MPH over the 'its not about the bike" guys.
(based on slightly less scientific tests than Tom A does on my own equipment)
You have to train, the engine is the biggest part of your speed, but the aero weenie bs really does work.
Oh yeah, I left jackmott off my list of people to listen to, he’s no dummy, just talkative. RC10 is hit or miss tho, kinda like the good, the bad and the ugly all wrapped up into one guy.
Hell I just parrot back what the smart people say.
and i need more engine
Oh yeah, I left jackmott off my list of people to listen to, he’s no dummy, just talkative. RC10 is hit or miss tho, kinda like the good, the bad and the ugly all wrapped up into one guy.
Obviously there’s a lot of knowledge on ST, held and shared by people who make their living off tri coaching and/or equipment. BarryP’s posts on running are invaluable. Tom Demerly’s equipment reviews are extremely appreciated and useful.
But there’s also a point where the tiny differences between one piece of equipment or training method or another are so small as to be academic, and don’t really have any real-world bearing on the life of your average MOP (or even FOP) age-grouper. I mean seriously, aero chainrings? Seriously?
It might make a hair of difference to Levi or Fabian, but to a triathlete who’s likely got an FTP under 300 and a few hours worth of hydration and nutrition strapped to their bike? Go run more.
Christ man, would you please stop letting the facts get into the way of our purchase power? I mean, one out of nine people got the same result from “sugar pill” as the other eight got out of the non-placebo. That has GOT to mean something. Train more? You really mean more is more? If I was to drop 5lbs I may be better off than if I was to spend $500 on a carbon/kevlar chain ring? Bah.
aero chain rings tested at 6 seconds per 40k from one source (some morons at MIT)
most people thinking clearly would call that significant alone, especially since you can accomplish it with some packing tape if you are broke.
But what if you pay attention to 10 details that are each worth 6 seconds?
it isn’t academic, its 6 seconds, it really is. It doesn’t matter if you blow your nose on course or take a piss on your bike or stop to smell some roses.
its still going to save you about 6 seconds at normal human bike speeds.
and if you have a few hours worth of hydration and nutrition strapped to your bike you are NOT paying attention to the aero weenies, and that wouldn’t change the 6 seconds savings from the chainring anyway. It may however, make your seatpost or stem fairing useless =)
for what its worth i have NOT bothered to put packing tape on my chainring…yet.
if you keep it up though I swear to god I will do it tonight
lol
But there’s also a point where the tiny differences between one piece of equipment or training method or another are so small as to be academic, and don’t really have any real-world bearing on the life of your average MOP (or even FOP) age-grouper. I mean seriously, aero chainrings? Seriously?
I went from a rookie know nothing triathlete to a full-time professional coach, fitter and got a bunch faster to boot by listening to people on this website who know more than me.
If an aero chainring plus 9 other equivalent aero-weenie accoutrements mean I end up getting off the bike 60 seconds behind someone I’d normally be in front of, and I can’t run him down over 10k, he deserves to finish in front of me.
I’m not saying paying reasonable attention to aero-ness isn’t a good idea. It certainly is, especially when everyone else is. But there’s a line there somewhere, and for me, that line sat at about $2k, because that was the price of my no-slouch-in-the-aero-department P2SL.
and, yes, if you have infinite ability to run faster then worrying about the bike does not matter.
If an aero chainring plus 9 other equivalent aero-weenie accoutrements mean I end up getting off the bike 60 seconds behind someone I’d normally be in front of, and I can’t run him down over 10k, he deserves to finish in front of me.
I’m not saying paying reasonable attention to aero-ness isn’t a good idea. It certainly is, especially when everyone else is. But there’s a line there somewhere, and for me, that line sat at about $2k, because that was the price of my no-slouch-in-the-aero-department P2SL.
Actually my plan was a wheelcover and a cosmic carbone, unfortunately that’s not happening this year cos I spent all my bike money on a nice, carbon, non-aero road bike. Maybe next year tho.
I’m not going to argue on the aeroness of chainrings. You say there’s obviously a lot of knowledge here and what I’m saying is a lot of people don’t seem to see the obviousness of the knowledge or even worse, they don’t like it or accept it. They don’t understand, i.e. “it’s all greek” to them so instead of trying to understand they instead lash out. I want to mention the creationists but I would like to stay in the man forum so I won’t. If you want to say that those 6 seconds are irrelevant to you, who am I to argue? What I am arguing against are those people who are saying those 6 seconds don’t exist. They clearly exist. Do with them what you will, but they exist.
I am a packing tape guy by the way. 60 cents saved me 600 dollars and lighter as a kicker. Speed is beautiful, not paintjobs.
No kidding. Take three of those guys and you have every last thing you need to know to become the best you can be. Just listen to them, search their old posts, shut up and stop arguing. Really even one of them, if you pick the right smartas…I mean person. I personally bow at the altar of those who know. Roughly 95% of the time. The other 5% i say f it, I know better. Usually I’m wrong but I like to reserve the right ya know.
And by the way if you are one of those people I mention just stay off this thread ok? I don’t mean I like you or want to take you out to dinner. I respect your knowledge is all. Flagellate elsewhere brainiacs.
