Had bloodwork done the other day. My testosterone level was 1.9 ng/mL (ref range: 2.9 - 40.8). I haven’t felt well for a while and would like to feel better. Since I don’t compete any longer, I’m going to go on the juice.
Does anyone have any advice/guidance on this subject? Should I consider gel vs injectable vs patch for delivery? How about side-effects? Will my nads fall off or any other dire consequence?
As a complicating factor my thyroid tested a touch off as well: 6.78 uIU/ml (ref range: 0.27 - 4.2).
Does one treat one before the other, or as independent issues?
Disclaimer: Yes, I will ask my doc these Q’s on my next visit. I’m just trying to get ahead of the curve w/other POV’s.
once you start taking exogenous testosterone your body won’t be making any more of it’s own. This means you need to stay on it forever, possibly, or at the very least can suffer side effects should you ever stop, until your start making your own again.
I would get a second opinion from a doctor that isn’t in the anti aging business.
I talked w GP last month expecting my test to come back low. He recommended biote which is a subdermal implant. It was an interesting study but results came back well within normal range. I was interested in implant but the shots were covered by insurance. My issue with injections was that there was an up and down as the cycle went in weekly. I’m already moody so I don’t need a chemically induced cycle.
From what I hear if you have to do one, injections while pricey are the best choice.
Jack. I think there is a bit of a sliding scale on the “Use anabolics, shut down natural production” continuum, is there not? Although I get your point - that is a serious downside to the supplementation game. However, if I’m in poor health/feel like shit and this can help me, do I not have to consider the option? Remember, I won’t be competing with anyone for any prize - I can barely walk to the end of my block and back - so there is no “doping for competition” angle here.
Also, I’m under the care of a VA doc at the local clinic - hardly a bastion of anti-aging treatment. It’s my only option as a disabled vet with no insurance and a low fixed income.
Thanks for your input tho. It’s food for thought.
Jack. I think there is a bit of a sliding scale on the “Use anabolics, shut down natural production” continuum, is there not? .
I believe generally the feedback loop in your body sees more than baseline, and then shuts down completely until back under baseline. But I am just a layman, consult your doctors for real info!
Are you getting enough sleep and eating well? Anything you can do to reduce stress?
There are a lot of side effects associated with the use of testosterone supplementation that are a lot worse than not being able to produce your own anymore. In particular cell proliferation and the effects on cell apoptosis (death)…I would definitely discuss this with a couple of other doctors, preferably endocrinologists with a holistic view of the problem.
There are a lot of side effects associated with the use of testosterone supplementation that are a lot worse than not being able to produce your own anymore. In particular cell proliferation and the effects on cell apoptosis (death)…I would definitely discuss this with a couple of other doctors, preferably endocrinologists with a holistic view of the problem.
Subjective first line, if you are aware of the possible side effects you can make an informed choice.
(eg. TRT can flatten sperm production - so if you are thinking of having children…)
I am on Nebido, I was on HCG and ovitrelle before that.
I would say that for myself it has been a game changer, but every case is different.
I opted for injection over gels for convenience and having read others opinions and taken endos advice.
If you must take advice on this from the net then certain bodybuilder forums have loads of info on this, they also raised a loda of questions for me which I then had cleared up by my endo.
My nads have got smaller - a small price to pay for me 
Just a couple of small issues to watch that can sometime turn out to bigger issues. It varies from person to person.
Watch your tongue and attitude at home, work (if you still work) and at the grocery parking lot when someone steals your parking space. Some guys (not all) will get a more aggressive attitude and yet they will not notice it near as much as those hearing it.Watch for depression if you have to come off for any reason, such as, insurance change and having to pay out of pocket. Even with a small therapy dose some guys (not all) cannot handle it and can slip into a deep depression. Let’s say you don’t quite feel prime now with lower T and for some reason you have to come off. Brace yourself because you may really hit a discouraging low for a few weeks or more. As long as you know that it could possibly happen and prepare yourself mentally for it you will come out of it better.Watch for the “more is better” syndrome.
Do I have experience?
I’ll just put it this way I was at one time a former competitive bodybuilder, dealer, coach and current day, on the side, I help guys cope with using even at a therapy dosage. Back in the day I had more practical experience in using and knowledge than most doctors.
A few years ago my urologist prescribed it for me after convincing me to start using again. In my case, different than most, it was like giving alcohol to a person that is struggling with alcoholism. For me the path now is a fun challenge to do all this through natural means as best possible. After retiring from strength sports and bodybuilding many years ago I gave myself a lifetime ban so no fear from this community that I am in competition. It is amazing to me how many guys in their 40’s+ at my gym are on therapy T right now. Some are coping with it well and some have a real attitude. One other thing I have noticed is about 4 out of 5 guys that confess to me will also talk about using more than the doctor has prescribed and will ask about getting more on the black market or tell me how they have tried to convince the doctor to up the dosage to “even out the fluctuations.” Being that I have many years with personal use and around other users I can see right through thoughts of manipulation to justify using more. It is almost natural to slip into, “if I feel this good now, just a bit more will be even better.” This is not an overnight transition, but the user’s (some, not all) thoughts gradually can change and attempt to justify using more.
What I find is most doctors that prescribe T and GH have convinced themselves that they are doing the patient good when it seems like there is another agenda* (maybe additional income for the family vacation to the Bahamas).* My urologist started sending me pamphlets in the mail about other forms of delivery when I clearly said I was struggling over the ethics of using them and not how it was administered. I have given myself 3 to 5 shots a week over a 10 year period so I have no problem with how to administer. Why was he pushing it so hard? Was he really interested in my overall health? Didn’t seem that way to me. The main reason why I went to him in the first place was a concern over prostrate cancer for heavily abusing anabolic and androgens over many years. There may not be a link between T and prostrate issues, but I was concerned anyway.
I am not suggesting not to use. I don’t suggest that to the guys at my gym and local scene. What I am concerned about are some things that caused me issues in life and to help them cope with it if the issues come up.
I hope it goes well for you. You may not experience any of the things I mentioned. One of the guys I see at the gym each morning is about as docile and good hearted and mentally balanced as one can be. He has mentioned being tempted by using more, but so far he has only used what has been prescribed. I believe him.
I am not a doctor, but you might consider getting your thyroid levels in check prior to any T supplementation.
I would get to an endocrinologist if that is an option with the VA.
The first line is hardly subjective. Uncontrolled apoptosis means cancer…If you’re arguing that small balls and no testosterone production is worse
than cancer and death, I’ll argue that it’s hardly an informed decision you’re making.
The first line is hardly subjective. Uncontrolled apoptosis means cancer…If you’re arguing that small balls and no testosterone production is worse
than cancer and death, I’ll argue that it’s hardly an informed decision you’re making.
I thought I was reasonably clued up for a lyaman on TRT but have admit I never heard of " Uncontrolled apoptosis" or that it means cancer (does it?) - you must have some qualification to suggest TRT causes cancer, care to let me know ? (the way you phrase it doesn’t even suggest a possible link - it reads as if people who take TRT will get cancer?)
http://urologytimes.modernmedicine.com/urology-times/news/no-link-found-between-testosterone-replacement-therapy-prostate-cancer-risk?page=full
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/j.1939-4640.2003.tb02676.x/full
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2701485/
When it comes to the link with prostate cancer, it’s rather difficult to show because of the power required to show results.
There are a couple of papers on rat models though.
What I find is most doctors that prescribe T and GH have convinced themselves that they are doing the patient good when it seems like there is another agenda* (maybe additional income for the family vacation to the Bahamas).* My urologist started sending me pamphlets in the mail about other forms of delivery when I clearly said I was struggling over the ethics of using them and not how it was administered. I have given myself 3 to 5 shots a week over a 10 year period so I have no problem with how to administer. Why was he pushing it so hard? Was he really interested in my overall health? Didn’t seem that way to me.
I was worried about this as well and was pleasantly surprised when my doc mentioned what he was on, what he thought about it, said “while I think XX product is great, it works for me, why don’t we wait until we get your results before we go any further down this road.” Then when the results came in he said, “nope, no need to consider that at this time” and he left it at that. I expected a little more of a push given the industry but he wasn’t having it. I really appreciated that i wasn’t being treated like a consumer/customer but truly like a patient.
Ivan,
If you are a regular coffee drinker, you should consider stopping for at least a month before you mess with the hpta further. This is one of the biggest energy draws of our society.
Typically people feel better long term when they strip away the excess.
That being said, if T makes you happy, it can’t be that bad. At least that’s what Cheryl told Lance.
My TSH is 6.78 uIU/ml. Ref range is 0.27 - 4.2. So I am also hyperthyroid. To that end I’m experiencing dry, scaly face and scalp skin; excessive hair loss; enlarged throat/anterior neck; difficulty swallowing; hoarse, croaky voice; heart palpitations; hypertension; shortness of breath and a few other issues. I’m a hot mess. I’m not suicidal, but either I want to get/feel better or have the big one. I’m sick and tired of being sick and tired, know what I mean?
Back to your point…should the thyroid be treated first? If so, why?
Had bloodwork done the other day. My testosterone level was 1.9 ng/mL (ref range: 2.9 - 40.8). I haven’t felt well for a while and would like to feel better. Since I don’t compete any longer, I’m going to go on the juice.
Does anyone have any advice/guidance on this subject? Should I consider gel vs injectable vs patch for delivery? How about side-effects? Will my nads fall off or any other dire consequence?
As a complicating factor my thyroid tested a touch off as well: 6.78 uIU/ml (ref range: 0.27 - 4.2).
Does one treat one before the other, or as independent issues?
Disclaimer: Yes, I will ask my doc these Q’s on my next visit. I’m just trying to get ahead of the curve w/other POV’s.
before going on any meds, why not consider evaluating changing your lifestyle or holistic methods?
Causes of low testosterone:
- lack of sleep
- highly processed food diet (or out of whack macro nutrients - too little fat)
- high alcohol consumption
- high amount of stress
- lack of sunlight
My TSH is 6.78 uIU/ml. Ref range is 0.27 - 4.2. So I am also hyperthyroid. To that end I’m experiencing dry, scaly face and scalp skin; excessive hair loss; enlarged throat/anterior neck; difficulty swallowing; hoarse, croaky voice; heart palpitations; hypertension; shortness of breath and a few other issues. I’m a hot mess. I’m not suicidal, but either I want to get/feel better or have the big one. I’m sick and tired of being sick and tired, know what I mean?
Back to your point…should the thyroid be treated first? If so, why?
I high TSH is not indicative of hyperthyroidism. Hypo is more like it, which possibly explains the lethargy. I also had a TSH of almost 6, and I actually went to see the doctor because I thought I was depressed. I could hardly move. I couldn’t get off the couch. My limbs felt like they were filled with lead. Turns out just a bit of synthroid put me back on track.
I wouldn’t necessarily attribute the heart palpitations/hypertension/shortness of breath to anything hyperthyroid either, it could also be a result of anxiety created by this sudden change in how you feel. Although I was hypo, I still couldn’t fall asleep from the anxiety I was feeling due to my inability to get motivated to do anything. It was affecting my family and my work. I was stressed beyond belief. I was a hot mess too. Once I got my thyroid in check, everything else fell back into place.
You could be having issues with your pituitary which could cause the T levels to be low as well. It sounds like your endocrine system is all messed up. You CANNOT do enough reading about this. You might be enlightened by even doing a basic google search on all the shit that can happen with your pituitary.
I still feel like I am simply treating my symptoms right now. There is something else going on other than simply having high TSH levels, still trying to figure it out.
I would try and get to an endocrinologist if at all possible. As an alternative, educate yourself and demand real answers to your questions from your doctor.
Just be aware that testosterone supplementation is illegal doping (cheating) unless you get a TUE, no matter what your doctor says. (I have no idea if you even compete, but I’m sure that some AGers think it’s OK to take testosterone and compete if their doctor tells them they need it).
Is anyone else uncomfortable with a “guidance for taking testosterone” thread being posted on an endurance sports forum?
+1 on this big time.
When you look at the average age and income of triathletes as a group, I suspect many age groupers are on some form of “help” under the guise of doctor’s prescription/recommendation.
What I’m most uncomfortable with is 1300+ views and only 17 replies. Tells me there are a lot of people doing it, a lot of people thinking about doing it, and a lot of people suspicious of their fellow competitors.