Terrorists win again?

The Coffee Shop
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Cell phone service disabled in New York tunnels Authorities fear terrorists could use devices to set off bombs

Tuesday, July 12, 2005; Posted: 12:15 a.m. EDT (04:15 GMT)

           WATCH **<u>Browse/Search</u>**      **<u>New York officials cut cell phone service in tunnels</u>** (2:33)    SPECIAL REPORT **NEW YORK (AP) -- Cell phone service was disabled inside the four tunnels leading into Manhattan after the terrorist bombings in London, but Mayor Michael Bloomberg questioned Monday whether the move "makes the most sense."**

Cell phones have been used to detonate explosives in Madrid and elsewhere.

But cutting off cell service in tunnels beneath the Hudson and East rivers means drivers can’t dial 911 in an emergency.

“I don’t know if it makes the most sense,” Mayor Michael Bloomberg said. “Cell phones provide a measure of comfort.”

The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which runs area transit hubs, bridges and tunnels, decided last Thursday to indefinitely sever power to transmitters providing wireless service in the Holland and Lincoln tunnels, spokesman Tony Ciavolella said Monday.

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which controls the nation’s largest mass transit system, also suspended mobile phone service in the Brooklyn-Battery and Queens Midtown tunnels after the London attack, but it reinstated service Monday afternoon.

The MTA initially said the service had been shut off at the request of police but later issued a statement saying there had been a miscommunication been the two agencies; an MTA spokesman declined to elaborate.

Police said they didn’t request cell service be shut off.

In the Madrid explosions, alarms in cells phones were set on vibration, which sent electric impulses to the copper detonators connected to the explosives, Spanish authorities said.

Investigators in London have said they believe four bombs there were set off with timing devices, but they haven’t determined what kind.

The Department of Homeland Security said the decision in New York to cut off cellular service was made without any recommendation by the federal government’s National Communications System, which ensures communications are available during national emergencies.

An overreaction by NY authorities or a justified precaution?

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The fact that people can’t call 911 now is a major concern. I would definitely feel less safe knowing I couldn’t call for help if I needed it.

This is really a no-win situation for MTA and it’s just a damned shame we even have to think about things like this on our commutes to work and home.

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Amen to the move.

Cell phones in such tight quarters are annoying and a safety hazard. In addition, extremely annoying.

The 911 argument isn’t really an issue. Plenty of other ways to call for help.

Finally some common sense being used.

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The 911 argument isn’t really an issue. Plenty of other ways to call for help.

You’re on a subway car being held hostage… no 911.

Give me another way. There are plenty, after all.

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Terrorist win? Dude you sound like a Republican. “If I don’t get my coffee terrorist win!”

They are trying a new technique to prevent a bombing.

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I watched an interview with a security expert on a NYC station yesterday. He said the move to cut off cell phone traffic was silly. He main point of contention was that any successful attempt to take down one of the tunnels would require enough explosives that it would require a truck, and said truck would be driven by a suicide terrorist. He also indicated how easy it was to construct a bomb that could be detonated in the tunnel without using a cell phone.

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Or, of course, the startling realization that the terrorists might now obey the new rules. It’s going to be hard to search ever person coming in and out of the tunnels for cell phones.

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What did we do before having cell phones?

In addition, there are phones on every one of the cars.

Again, not a problem.

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What did we do before having cell phones?

Can you answer the question?

In addition, there are phones on every one of the cars.

Yep, just tell that guy pacing the car with a submachine gun you have a quick call to make. He’ll be fine with you getting up and walking over to that phone.

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Here is the proble. If they really wanted to prevent bombings in subways they would have to search every person coming down the stairs. Of course this would bring service to a grindng hault and everyone will be mad, but if they do the only real thing they can do and trust the public to look for unusaul packages the public will say they are not doing enough. So they split the diffrence and do little stuff that won’t work so they can say “Hey we are trying.”

It’s a no win thank to the infant state of the human candition. I find it hard to shed a tear.

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Can you answer the question?

The question answers itself. If there’s no service, you can’t call out.

Yep, just tell that guy pacing the car with a submachine gun you have a quick call to make. He’ll be fine with you getting up and walking over to that phone.

But he’ll be ok with you making it on your cell phone?

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The question answers itself. If there’s no service, you can’t call out.

You said there were plenty of other ways to call for help. Can you tell me what some of those are, please?

Pretty please with sugar on top?

Please?

But he’ll be ok with you making it on your cell phone?

I can call 911 on my cell phone without even reaching into my pocket.
All you have to do then is do “SOS” or any other steady pattern of button presses so the operator knows what’s going on (can’t talk, but it’s not an accidental call).

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Can you tell me what some of those are, please?

The subway cars have phones in them. There are phones at the stations. It’s not really an issue. What did we do before cell phones?

I can call 911 on my cell phone without even reaching into my pocket.
All you have to do then is do “SOS” or any other steady pattern of button presses so the operator knows what’s going on (can’t talk, but it’s not an accidental call).

So?

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What did we do before cell phones?

Nothing.
Waited to either die or for someone to figure out we were in trouble.

So?

I can get help without the guy even knowing I’ve done it. I’d say that’s fairly different than getting up and running towards an emergency phone.

Wouldn’t you?

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You’re making the mistaken assumption that in the event of a hijack a phone call would even make a difference. In fact, those being hijacked would be safer by staying put and following the commands of the hijackers. Calling out does nothing but endangers their personal welfare.

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In fact, those being hijacked would be safer by staying put and following the commands of the hijackers.

That’s what the passengers on the 9/11 flights thought.

Calling out does nothing but endangers their personal welfare.

How is this so if the call is not discovered by the hijacker?

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That’s what the passengers on the 9/11 flights thought.

How did phone calls from the passengers on the 9/11 flights save them?

How is this so if the call is not discovered by the hijacker?

How can you be so sure that their phone calls won’t be discovered?

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How did phone calls from the passengers on the 9/11 flights save them?

It didn’t.
It gave us more information about what was going on and it alerted authorities to the situation faster.

In a situation where there are multiple coordinated hijackings a quick warning from the first plane could lead to all other flights being grounded and breaking the chain.

How can you be so sure that their phone calls won’t be discovered?

I’m sure not all cell phone calls would be undiscovered, but it’s far more covert than your proposal (using emergency phones in the car).

By the way, you said there were “Plenty of other ways to call for help.” and so far you’ve only offered standing up and walking/running to an emergency phone.
Not only is that nonsense, it’s also only one, not “plenty”.

Do you have any more?

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It didn’t.
It gave us more information about what was going on and it alerted authorities to the situation faster.

In a situation where there are multiple coordinated hijackings a quick warning from the first plane could lead to all other flights being grounded and breaking the chain.

In the case of 9/11, air traffic controllers knew something was wrong before any calls were made. In addition, the result was still the same. Passengers and those on the ground were dead. Cell phone calls did nothing to prevent or save other lives.

I’m sure not all cell phone calls would be undiscovered, but it’s far more covert than your proposal (using emergency phones in the car).

Do you have any more?

Nope. No additional options are neccessary.

To sum this up…you’ve offered no evidence that the use of cell phones will save anyone’s life in the event of a hijacking on the NYC transit system. In fact, in a hostage situation, it’s best that passengers follow the commands of the hijackers. There is no past history that shows that cell phones saved one life in a similar situation.

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Do you have a better answer to the question than the one I posted?