Is it too early for this thread yet? Might as well kick it off now because it happens every year.
People keep asking me if I’m doing World’s. No. I’m not. The swim-cheat-run, wheel-sucking malfeasance that occurs at that race is utterly maddening and makes me hate everyone.
70.3 Worlds has been a cheating competition since I’ve been in the sport, and every year there’s a thread on it; someone is always flabbergasted at how bad it is. I started the 2013 thread and after that, I vowed not to do this ‘non-draft’ triathlon again until the issues were resolved. Last year’s thread was arguably my favorite, in which desert dude was roasted for basically saying you have to cheat to compete (hint: you do).
WTC seems to be making an effort this year – separate days for men and women; partially upstream river swim; and a big climb right out of T2 – but there is no way it’s enough. You can’t “break up the packs” with a climb when everyone can ascend at a similar level and everyone started the bike within a relatively compact time frame with scores of equally able competitors. And everybody can swim at World’s, or at least the vast majority can swim very well (within 2-3 minutes of the non super-fish). I hope it will be a lot better, and at least a lot more fair for the women, who in past years have been affected by this much more than the men…with a separate race I suspect it will be materially better for them.
So I’ll pass. You can use this thread to cry like a biatch afterwards if you want.
Ok, I’ll bite. What is Ironman doing to prevent massive draft packs this year at Chattanooga? Maybe Jimmy or someone in the know can respond? We know that whatever has been used in the past has not worked- so what is being changed to combat the issue?
Is it too early for this thread yet? Might as well kick it off now because it happens every year.
People keep asking me if I’m doing World’s. No. I’m not. The swim-cheat-run, wheel-sucking malfeasance that occurs at that race is utterly maddening and makes me hate everyone.
70.3 Worlds has been a cheating competition since I’ve been in the sport, and every year there’s a thread on it; someone is always flabbergasted at how bad it is. I started the 2013 thread and after that, I vowed not to do this ‘non-draft’ triathlon again until the issues were resolved. Last year’s thread was arguably my favorite, in which desert dude was roasted for basically saying you have to cheat to compete (hint: you do).
WTC seems to be making an effort this year – separate days for men and women; partially upstream river swim; and a big climb right out of T2 – but there is no way it’s enough. You can’t “break up the packs” with a climb when everyone can ascend at a similar level and everyone started the bike within a relatively compact time frame with scores of equally able competitors. And everybody can swim at World’s, or at least the vast majority can swim very well (within 2-3 minutes of the non super-fish). I hope it will be a lot better, and at least a lot more fair for the women, who in past years have been affected by this much more than the men…with a separate race I suspect it will be materially better for them.
So I’ll pass. You can use this thread to cry like a biatch afterwards if you want.
My first and only 70.3 WC was at Clearwater way back in the day. It was a sad day filled with despair and disgust. Looking at some of the 70.3s in the past, you can’t get a fair race in the men’s pro race, how do you expect to get one in the age-group race?
I’ll bite too. You stated that you have to cheat to compete. To me that makes me think it’s an organization issue with WTC instead of an athlete issue. I’ve just come to grips with the fact that if I’m doing a WTC race then there is going to be drafting and to not get angry about it.
I’ll bite too. You stated that you have to cheat to compete. To me that makes me think it’s an organization issue with WTC instead of an athlete issue. I’ve just come to grips with the fact that if I’m doing a WTC race then there is going to be drafting and to not get angry about it.
Of course it is. I said it makes me hate “everyone”. That includes WTC, Jimmy, Dalian Wanda, Jimmy, etc.
I know at least the first half of the bike is different than the spring race, but that road coming back to town is a narrow two lane road open to traffic. I would assume the southbound road is largely the same. Drafting and riding in the middle of the lane in May 2016 coming back north was absolutely ridiculous. It was probably bad going south as well but it was a TT start and I was in the water quickly so didn’t see many folks there.
Kona is the sacred cow I know, but my experience there(only 2x) the whole bike is drafting, some legal, most illegal. After Chattanooga I will let you know which is worse.
I at least a lot more fair for the women, who in past years have been affected by this much more than the men…with a separate race I suspect it will be materially better for them.
I think the women’s race won’t be too bad. Conversely I think that the men’s race will be worse than ever, since there will be about 800 more men than at a usual 70.3 WC.
What are people thoughts on using technology to reduce drafting??? Example, the quarq collector. Have referees monitoring from behind a computer screen? Warnings/Penalties can be relayed to course officials who will advise racers? We spend a lot of time complaining about drafting, and not dismiss it as a problem, but what is the solution besides honest athletes?
At some races I have seen undercover officials on bikes, watching for drafting and handing out drafting penalties. They had them at 70.3 Tremblant and the 5i50 there too and at some other events too. Some of the smaller events I have seen them at, it’s incredibly effective. As soon as word gets around that there are a few out there, and you see people in the penalty tent, the packs tend to disperse more. Would love to see that go more widespread.
The error on a collector is said to be 3m. With two riders it would be +/- 6m which is too big a chunk of the draft zone. I do think it should be solvable by technology though.
At some races I have seen undercover officials on bikes, watching for drafting and handing out drafting penalties. They had them at 70.3 Tremblant and the 5i50 there too and at some other events too. Some of the smaller events I have seen them at, it’s incredibly effective. As soon as word gets around that there are a few out there, and you see people in the penalty tent, the packs tend to disperse more. Would love to see that go more widespread.
While they did hand out penalties in Tremblant, it’s still a major draft fest.
Still, what can you expect in trying to cram 2500 athletes on a 90k path? That’s an average of only 36m per athlete if everyone was evenly spaced and going at the same speed, it’s never gonna happen. People will apss, then get stuck behind someone, a pack trying to pass a few slowpokes will form, then that pack will try to dissipate but it’s never working very well, good intentions or bad intentions. The only races where I have seen no drafting are non-WTC, where much less athletes are registered. The best way to reduce drafting in a 70.3 is to cut down the field. Considering they are probably the most profitable races, ain’t gonna happen.
I’ll bite too. You stated that you have to cheat to compete. To me that makes me think it’s an organization issue with WTC instead of an athlete issue. I’ve just come to grips with the fact that if I’m doing a WTC race then there is going to be drafting and to not get angry about it.
Of course it is. I said it makes me hate “everyone”. That includes WTC, Jimmy, Dalian Wanda, Jimmy, etc.
Ummm…you listed Jimmy twice. That PV guy would have listed him 3-4 times minimum and lower-cased the “j” for emphasis.
What are people thoughts on using technology to reduce drafting??? Example, the quarq collector. Have referees monitoring from behind a computer screen? Warnings/Penalties can be relayed to course officials who will advise racers? We spend a lot of time complaining about drafting, and not dismiss it as a problem, but what is the solution besides honest athletes?
Drones. 30 second segments all along the course with digital ID tech for the numbers.
I’ll bite too. You stated that you have to cheat to compete. To me that makes me think it’s an organization issue with WTC instead of an athlete issue. I’ve just come to grips with the fact that if I’m doing a WTC race then there is going to be drafting and to not get angry about it.
Of course it is. I said it makes me hate “everyone”. That includes WTC, Jimmy, Dalian Wanda, Jimmy, etc.
Ummm…you listed Jimmy twice. That PV guy would have listed him 3-4 times minimum and lower-cased the “j” for emphasis.
The late Publius would have maligned Jimmy’s character and blasted the illogic he put forth in the Lionel Sanders draftgate thread, which by the way almost put Brooks Doughtie into an early grave from apoplectic rage.
I wish stan were doing more advocacy around this issue honestly
I’ll bite too. You stated that you have to cheat to compete. To me that makes me think it’s an organization issue with WTC instead of an athlete issue. I’ve just come to grips with the fact that if I’m doing a WTC race then there is going to be drafting and to not get angry about it.
Of course it is. I said it makes me hate “everyone”. That includes WTC, Jimmy, Dalian Wanda, Jimmy, etc.
Ummm…you listed Jimmy twice. That PV guy would have listed him 3-4 times minimum and lower-cased the “j” for emphasis.
The late Publius would have maligned Jimmy’s character and blasted the illogic he put forth in the Lionel Sanders draftgate thread, which by the way almost put Brooks Doughtie into an early grave from apoplectic rage.
I wish stan were doing more advocacy around this issue honestly
You should go race Barcelona, then you’ll come back and be refreshed with how courteous and rule-abiding the U.S. races are.
What are people thoughts on using technology to reduce drafting??? Example, the quarq collector. Have referees monitoring from behind a computer screen? Warnings/Penalties can be relayed to course officials who will advise racers? We spend a lot of time complaining about drafting, and not dismiss it as a problem, but what is the solution besides honest athletes?
Drones. 30 second segments all along the course with digital ID tech for the numbers.
I think the easest way to do this would be Angle of Arrival antenna arrays in devices on the bike that log relative positions during the race. They could be built relatively cheaply I think. I’d guess maybe 40 to 50 bucks per bike? Maybe cheaper. But even that I think is more than any RD would spend unless racers we’re willing to pay higher fees.
Not sure if the market is big enough to attract anyone to make it…
Edit: since you only need position to accurate enough to know whose in front and whose behind, it can probably be done with only 2 rf transcievers per bike I stead of 3.
Just make drafting officially legal, since it happens so much anyways. But the bikers would be upset since this would mean they have to learn
to swim and run.
