Tear Apart my Bike Position

Triathlon Forum
1

So I finally go a 1/2 way descent photo in our construction zone… I mean the road in front of our house.

Please note that I normally ride jsut a little steeper, more over my pads and rotate my hips a little more. I took think just hopping on my bike and soft pedaling at 15mph.

FWIM I rode 23.7mph over 56 miles on 227W AP that afternoon with 20-25mph gusty headwind through open fields. 1:31 out, 51:00 back. The wind was so strong that I spun out a 53/12 at 110RPM at about 38-40mph for a couple miles doing only 190 Watts. So I think I’m on the right track overall. I’ve ordered a -25 degree 105mm stem (100mm, -17 now) to get a little longer and slightly longer. 5’11", 164lbs. 165mm cranks. Size Medium frame.

It’s funny, I feel a lot lower and aggressive than the picture shows. But I think I can improve more.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-h60xncf5Vs8/U0tSmCs-aKI/AAAAAAAAAD0/_8WqminHjoM/s1600/Bike+photo.jpg

Comments and questions:

  1. Yes, I need to “turtle” my head better
  2. Should I move my bottle further forward, shold it be more between my forearms, that over the stem?
  3. I agree… losing 2-3lbs would help.
  4. No I don’t race with the flashy rear light… but I think your nutz not to use one on public road even in broad daylight.
  5. I’m debating on that Cobb rear hydration mount. I could just use velcro strap to hold a 2nd tube and CO2 under the seat, then use 2 bottles only. I’m not sure if the rear bottle or down tube bottle is more aero. Opinions?
  6. I’m going to cut another 1/4-1/2" or off the extension tips so my hands still over the shifters, but still parallel to the the bars. The pads are currently about 7.5" apart (CTC) and extension are all the way against the stem and rotated inward slightly.
  7. I have an old Diacomp 200 brake on my road bike that I’m going to swap with the Ultegra. I can’t justify the cost of a Tririg Omega brake right now.
  8. So how much do the princess stickers on my front wheel that I let my 4y/o daughter apply before each race, slow me down?
2

It’s a little tough to assess from a picture. A video would help.

Yes, turtling will help as will weight loss - as long as your power isn’t impacted. Not sure I can address your other questions adequately.

I think you’re riding high. I’d like to see you come down in front 1 - 2 cm. Looks like your stem is -17 and slammed. Is that correct?

3

Have you got more pictures where your bottom leg is furthest away from your hips?

You can basically change the saddle position (higher and further forward) or lower the front with the stem (which will prob need a saddle change too).

I think you need a different bike frame to get into a much more aggressive position

4

I would go with no bottle cages except for the one between your arms. Even the empty cage has a relatively heavy aero disadvantage. On the bike course, there should be water handups every 10 miles, so no real reason to race w/ two bottles, unless you’re using liquid nutrition (which I’m not a huge fan of, but to each his own).

Perhaps you could get more aggressive w/ a different aerobar setup? Your pads seem a lot higher than the top of your head tube. Treks are middle-of-the-road stack height, so coupled w/ a tall cockpit may not be your best option to get more aggressive.

Having said all that, a 23.7 mph half iron bike split will be pretty salty. May be a little late in the game to play with your position given that metric.

The princess stickers clearly remove at least 100 g of drag.

Good luck!

5

It’s a little tough to asses from a picture. A video would help.

Yes, turtling will help as will weight loss - as long as your power isn’t impacted. Not sure I can address your other questions adequately.

I think you’re riding high. I’d like to see you come down in front 1 - 2 cm. Looks like your stem is -17 and slammed. Is that correct?

Yes… it’s a 100mm -17 with no spacers. I have a 105mm, -25 on order. I think that base bar, clip-on combination already sits up high.

Of course I’m not exactly fat (about 7-8% BF) but 3lbs wouldn’t be bad for my running either. I think I can roll my hips a little more. I’ll swap the stem and get my wife to take a video while on my trainer after I’ve warmed up and settled in to my position.

6

rolling your hips isn’t going to change how high you are riding, which is high enough that your helmet has no chance to touch your back, or so it seems
.

7

I would go with no bottle cages except for the one between your arms. Even the empty cage has a relatively heavy aero disadvantage. On the bike course, there should be water handups every 10 miles, so no real reason to race w/ two bottles, unless you’re using liquid nutrition (which I’m not a huge fan of, but to each his own).

Perhaps you could get more aggressive w/ a different aerobar setup? Your pads seem a lot higher than the top of your head tube. Treks are middle-of-the-road stack height, so coupled w/ a tall cockpit may not be your best option to get more aggressive.

Having said all that, a 23.7 mph half iron bike split will be pretty salty. May be a little late in the game to play with your position given that metric.

The princess stickers clearly remove at least 100 g of drag.

Good luck!

Good observation on the frame. I was starting to wonder if it’s a limiting factor. I think have to make the best with what I have. A $500+ bar set-up isn’t happening.

That cage would have a bottle in it, but I took it out for the photo session. I thought about using a single bottle, but I’ve missed a hand-up once before at my last 70.3. I guess you get mare careful when it really counts. Probably not big deal at 70.3 distance. But a concern to go 25-30 minutes without hydration or nutrition in a full. I did use a concentrated bottle on my last long ride and that seemed to work well. IT definitely simplified fueling over messing with wrappers all the time or sucking down a ton of gels.

At a race like IMWI, how “long” are the aide stations? Do you have 2 or 3 opportunities to get a bottle if you drop one? I get the impression that they are fairly long.

8

I would go with no bottle cages except for the one between your arms. Even the empty cage has a relatively heavy aero disadvantage. On the bike course, there should be water handups every 10 miles, so no real reason to race w/ two bottles, unless you’re using liquid nutrition (which I’m not a huge fan of, but to each his own).

Perhaps you could get more aggressive w/ a different aerobar setup? Your pads seem a lot higher than the top of your head tube. Treks are middle-of-the-road stack height, so coupled w/ a tall cockpit may not be your best option to get more aggressive.

Having said all that, a 23.7 mph half iron bike split will be pretty salty. May be a little late in the game to play with your position given that metric.

The princess stickers clearly remove at least 100 g of drag.

Good luck!

Good observation on the frame. I was starting to wonder if it’s a limiting factor. I think have to make the best with what I have. A $500+ bar set-up isn’t happening.

That cage would have a bottle in it, but I took it out for the photo session. I thought about using a single bottle, but I’ve missed a hand-up once before at my last 70.3. I guess you get mare careful when it really counts. Probably not big deal at 70.3 distance. But a concern to go 25-30 minutes without hydration or nutrition in a full. I did use a concentrated bottle on my last long ride and that seemed to work well. IT definitely simplified fueling over messing with wrappers all the time or sucking down a ton of gels.

At a race like IMWI, how “long” are the aide stations? Do you have 2 or 3 opportunities to get a bottle if you drop one? I get the impression that they are fairly long.

I did IMTX last year with just one bottle. I never had a problem getting a bottle when I needed it. The volunteers are everywhere and dying to hand you a bottle. I had about 10 chances at each aid station. I would expect IMWI to have comparable support.

Another disadvantage to liquid nutrition occurs if it’s a hot day. I know a lot of people were not excited about drinking their calories after their bottle had sat in the sun on a hundred degree day (like IMTX was last year) for 6+ hours. I just went w/ gel flasks. Each flask held about 400 cals. I would take about one per hour. Restocked at the bike special needs midway on the course. Worked well for me. You are gonna give up a couple minutes on your ride doing that, but that was alright w/ me. :slight_smile:

You know, you might not necessarily need to get a whole new cockpit. I think the Zipp Alumina clip on bars can get really low. And are relatively inexpensive. Of course, you’d have to recable the shifters, but that’s not a big deal if you’re comfortable w/ that sort of thing. Or you may be able to just buy the clip and pad system itself, and not the aerobar extension or basebar. Could get you a couple cm lower, maybe. And no recabling!

I think the bottle on the downtube is a better aero choice than behind the seat or on the seattube, if you choose to take a second bottle.

9

Can’t help you as i’m no position wiz, curious where you ordered the -25 stem you mentioned from though- I need one.

10

Thanks. The 110 x -25 will lower you by about 6 mm and extend you by about 9mm vs. the 100 x -17.

Specialized makes a Comp stem in a -24 with shims that will let you go from -20 to -28 in 2 degree increments. Once you’ve moved to the 110, each 2 degrees will lower you by slightly less than 5 and shorten the reach by about .6mm. The Specialized stem may save you some experimentation.

All of this assumes I can still do geometry. That’s not a given.

hth

11

Flanny, don’t know where the Op ordered his, but Ritchey makes one in their 260 series - tough to get it on an aero base, though. I couldn’t get it on my TriRig. Cinelli’s Pista is available in a -25. There may be others, but that’s all I know.

12

Can’t help you as i’m no position wiz, curious where you ordered the -25 stem you mentioned from though- I need one.

Bontrager makes a 4 bolt 31.8mm clamp. You can get it in black OR white. You can get it direct and the Trek online store.

I’ve been looking at the some pictures of Pros on speed concepts and it seems pretty common for them to be a little shorter on reach making them appear higher than they are because they are more compact. Its’ definitely not a long and low fit like I think the Felt.

It’s only a 105mm, not a 110. The next length is 120mm.

I might be wearing my helmet just a little too far forward too.

It’s also possible that low isn’t more aero for me and I’m really chasing diminishing returns. But I don’t have a wind tunnel in the backyard. I have a power meter, but it’s a Stages, and not precise enough to do good aero measurements. OK for measure training load and intensity, which is what I wanted it for.