Dear Cerveloites:
Has anyone tried the Team Soloist by Cervelo? Is it a bona-fide road racing machine or a strange TT hybrid? How about the weight? Any idea what the frame and fork are coming in at?
Dear Cerveloites:
Has anyone tried the Team Soloist by Cervelo? Is it a bona-fide road racing machine or a strange TT hybrid? How about the weight? Any idea what the frame and fork are coming in at?
I’ve ridden the '02 Ultegra equipped Soloist extensively. I wrote a review that is here:
http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/reviews/soloist.shtml
I thought it was the nicest compact geometry road bike I have ridden from any manufacturer, mostly becasue it fit me the best. It is a minor compormise for me as a Triathlon bike since, in my size, I prefer 650c wheels for better weight distribution over the wheels. Considering how ambition a design project it is (one bike that does two different things well) this bike is a home run if it fits you. I expect the new version to be similar.
I have a Soloist set up exclusively as a time trial bike. It is a 2002 model. I was professionally fitted and the Soloist was recommended because of the slacker seat angle.
I am very happy with the bike. It is light (I have never weighed it but would guess around 18 pounds for 51cm) and stiff in the bottom bracket. The ride seems fine to me, maybe a little buzzier than my steel road bike but not a big deal. The fit and finish are excellent, and I haven’t had any problems with the bike with around 2500 miles on it. I am very comfortable onthis bike and commonly ride it for 50+ miles in the aero position. The comfort is probably due to the excellent fit. Most importantly, I am faster on this bike than on my road bike. I believe this is primarily due to a tuned aerodynamic position, although I assume the shaped tubes and internal cables don’t hurt.
The only problem I had was a spoke coming loose in the front wheel–Ritchey WCS. The wheel immediately went out of true but it was rideable once the brake was released. Of course, this happened during a race.
I really don’t buy into the idea of one bike for both time trial and regular road position. I ride a 57cm road bike (6’1" tall) and a 51cm Soloist. Maybe, the dual setup for the Soloist will work for others, but there is no way I could ride my bike with regular bars.
Nevertheless, if I was in the market for a road bike I would almost certainly buy a larger Soloist–if it fit me. Aerodynamic advantages never hurt, and I really like the bike that much.
Tom Demerly wrote a very good review of this bike: http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/reviews/soloist.shtml
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The only people who have ridden the Soloist Team would be either working for Cervelo or be a part of Team CSC. As for the “strange TT hybrid”, it really isn’t. In fact, the guys at CSC don’t even know it has that TT capability, to them it is just a road bike. And I haven’t bothered to tell them, since they have P3s anyway and they may view the bike differently if they thought it was something strange. I wanted to get the feedback without any prejudices, and as it stands they like them. I haven’t really talked about it because it is a bit embarrassing, I had expected that these seasoned pros would be resisting the new bikes but they haven’t. I kept pushing them for some negative feedback since that is more useful to me than positive feedback, but they couldn’t find anything. As I wasn’t sure if that was because they didn’t want to say anything to my face, I asked Tyler Hamilton to ask them privately and to not let them go before they mentioned at least one negative point. In the end, the only thing that three of them could come up with was that they didn’t like the look of a sloping toptube.
BTW, and Tom will like this, when I asked them specifically for certain features, almost all riders would respond to the question of comfort with a reply that their Soloist fits well. When told I meant how the bike absorbed road imperfections they would add that that was good too, but that they were much more concerned with getting their position perfect as they really feel comfort comes from fit. One would think that that is fairly simple to achieve, but apparently last year several riders had problems with this despite the 12 sizes they could choose from vs. 6 this year. The key factor is that a lot of the 12 sizes had overlapping cockpit lengths whereas the 6 sizes have cockpit lengths that are evenly spaced out. So while last year several riders were on custom geometry, all of them are on stock sizes this year (thankfully as I don’t even want to think about the hassles about doing custom geometries).
Gerard,
Judging by this post it leads us to assume that the CSC guys will be riding Soloists and P3’s. Just wondering if any of the other models will be rode in the TDF.
What really seems peculiar is your comment that the CSC guys don’t realize that the Soloist has TT capabilities?? Don’t these guys ever read a bicycle magazine or play on the internet or is ride bikes all they do 24/7?? It’s no big secret that the Cervelo Soloist was designed as a dual purpose bike. How could they not be aware of this? You would think that if CSC had told them that their new bikes were going to be Cervelo’s then the first thing they would do is a bit of research?
Perhaps they’re so used to getting custom or “semi-custom” bikes as well as other swag that normal people never get to see, there’s no point trying to see what the rags have to say? I don’t know, not being anywhere close to a pro rider.
Regardless, it speaks very well for Gerard and Cervelo. I can think of very few (if any!) products for which I’ve had zero negative feedback…
My understanding (as a Cervelo dealer- I may be wrong about this) is that some CSC guys will also be using the new R2.5 carbon frame. According to my conversations with our buddies at Cervelo, this will be a very limited production frame, possibly as few as 200 being available for open sale. I ordered one for myself to try and am looking forward to getting it. It is hard to imagine a nicer road bike than the Soloist series, but if this is it, I am going to be very happy!
Tom,
Have you tried the Prodigy or Renaissance? I’m surprised you’d consider the Soloist the best road bike you’ve ridden
I’m sure there are a few riders who know about the TT capabilities of the Soloist, as do the mechanics, but of course there are different levels of knowledge. They don’t know THEIR Soloists can do this, just like there are plenty of customers who think it takes a hacksaw to turn a Soloist into a TT bike :-).
As for what the team will ride, CSC works differently from any other team I have ever seen. Because they are located in Denmark and not near most of the races and because they ride a double program, they have two gigantic trucks with equpment, one for Northern Europe and one for the South.
Each truck contains two bikes for each rider, so that they always have the choice of one of two types of road bikes depending on the type of race. And this way, when a rider switches from the NE to the SE program he doesn’t have to travel with a bike, two bikes are already waiting for him inthe other truck. On top of that, each rider has a bike at home and a TT bike (which they would travel with in some cases).
The training bike at home, the one they log the big miles on, is a Soloist. The other road bikes in the trucks are Soloists, Prodigies (especially in the “Northern truck”) and R2.5’s (esp. in the Southern truck). Finally there are Michael Sandstoed and Jimmy Madsen, who form a team in the six-days, and they have P2Ts for those races.
Interesting. I recently read an article claiming that the race manager(forget his name at the moment) for Team Once makes all the decisions for the team and the riders don’t question it. To my mind at least, Lance’s involvement in equipment detail and development is somewhat of an advantage.
The only people who have ridden the Soloist Team would be either working for Cervelo or be a part of Team CSC. Gerard, does that mean the new Soloist is not yet being distributed for sale to the public? Any idea when we can get one from our local dealer? Thanks, Brent
Great to be able to finally ask someone on the “inside”.
I’ve read that Trek gives sponsored riders new frames every year. I’m curious if CSC has requested this, and if so, what happens to the 1yr old bikes
Thanks, gerard. More information than I expected. Can you divulge details of the frame weight as well?
Interesting. I recently read an article claiming that the race manager(forget his name at the moment) for Team Once makes all the decisions for the team and the riders don’t question it. To my mind at least, Lance’s involvement in equipment detail and development is somewhat of an advantage.
I’m not sure it is that black and white. I think the important thing is that the person with knowledge makes the decision. Whether that is the rider, the team manager or the bike supplier doesn’t really matter. Most riders aren’t that knowledgeable on equipment, yet do take all sorts of decisions. At CSC, Riis has an extraordinary interest in the equipment, and luckily he is also knowledgeable. Most riders accept his decisions because they know Riis has spent more time thinking about this stuff than they have, and atthe same time Riis accepts our input for the same reason.
But it’s a very synergic arrangement, a good example of this was a discussion we had on bikes for Paris Roubaix. We sat down with Riis and Tafi, and in that arrangement Tafi is the expert on the requirements, we are the experts in how a bike can meet those requirements. Riis is a bit in-between the two, with knowledge on both ends. So Tafi can provide info on what the determining factors are in the race (comfort, traction, handling, etc.) and in what way. We then toss in various ideas on how to achieve this, and together with Riis we can determine which solution is likely to be the best.
As for the other questions, the Soloist Team is in production, the CSC frames were simply the first frames from the first run. The other frames have been finished too, but they receive a bit more TLC in the painting stage and then to assembly, whereas the CSC frames were rushed through painting to make it to the team presentation in time.
Add in shipping etc., the Soloist should be in stores in a month. The weight is not that much different from last year, approx. 3 lb. for a mid-size frame.
Gerard, how would you go about recommending, or the team members chosing, a Prodigy over a Soloist for a race?
Gerard, how would you go about recommending, or the team members chosing, a Prodigy over a Soloist for a race?
For the riders, Tafi will ride a Soloist for Flanders but a Prodigy for Paris Roubaix. Why? Because the Soloist has a sloping toptube. Of course that didn’t make sense to me, so I started teasing him that I would make this really cool Soloist for him with full suspension and a slooping (the Europeans say slooping, not sloping) toptube, and every time he would say “No, no, no, no slooping for Roubaix, not for Roubaix”. So after teasing him ten times I finally asked why he insisted he didn’t want “slooping” for Roubaix and he said “Well, you know, it probably is all in my head, I know there is no difference”. I thought that was pretty good, a rider who knows his argument is moot, yet holds on to it. Don’t get me wrong, Tafi is one of my favorite riders and even more so after meeting him, and I actually think it shows some good equipment smarts. In the end, for most riders it will be based on a gut feeling, they like steel or Aluminum or sloping or not.
As for what I would say, that is a really tough one. In fact, it is the one question that I get asked regularly and that I can’t answer. I really love both the Soloist and the Prodigy, but I am incapable of expressing what the difference is when I ride them. Rationally, the vote should go to the Soloist. But the Prodigy is such a nice bike too. Maybe it’s a bit like having a really nice sports coupe and a convertible of the same model. Rationally, the coupe would be the superior sports car, but nonetheless I think a fair number of people would prefer the convertible. Bad analogy, butthe best I can do. Sorry.
I’m looking forward to hearing the feedback the team gives Gerard AFTER the races. That will be more valueable than our speculation at this point! I’m sure that’s half the reason Gerard, Ugo, Ernesto, Tom R, and the rest push to get their designs into top level competition. In my business (combat) gear isn’t proven until it survives the battlefield. I’m sure cycling is no different. I’ve been there to see PR and it qualifies as a battlefield in my book!
This is such a great thread!
Anyway, no one’s mentioned the frameset weight so I’ll just throw that out…
say the frame is 3 lb. The fork about 390 g (uncut I think).
That makes the frameset =~3.86 lb more or less depending on size.
I found it strange that ThunderThighs rides a 57cm road frame, is 6’1, yet rides a 51cm Soloist. That doesn’t sound right at all. I can conceive a 6’1 guy on a 54 at the smallest (and not necessarily properly fitted), but I just can’t see how you could possibly fit right with the seatpost so high and the front end so low…and how long is your stem?
I mean, the whole fit advantage of the Soloist for TT/tri comes from the reversible seatpost and the lower top-tube. It doesn’t seem like you ought to necessarily size down as a general rule.
Please explain.
Thanks,
Kelvin
Sorry, I should have been more specific.
I can ride such a small frame because I use the reversible seat post in the set back position. I ride in the TT position with the 73.5 seat tube angle–sort of a “Grand Slam” position. I was really surprised when the fitter came up with such a small frame, but it really does fit well.