Team in Training aka the purple menace

Triathlon Forum
1

I know as I write this I am opening myself up to a possible angry backlash. But this is meant as a helpful critique rather than a rant. I hope it will be useful.

In my experience with Team in Training participants they for the most part seem to be really nice individuals. But get 300 of them together at an event and its more like a cult, the “purple menace” if you will. I know they are raising a lot of money for a great cause and helping races to expand (Lavaman has grown exponentially). But here’s the issue: there seems to be an over abundance of motivation and a complete lack of understanding the rules and ettiquette of the sport. Which as we all know are there for our safety. I’m not going to go into detail about the 1 DNF on my resume that was a direct result of complete and utter obliviousness of a T-I-T racer. But I’m not the only person that has been injured by the purple menace. It was not that long ago that I was a newbie, but I took the time to learn and understand the rules so as not to be a hazard on the course.

My second issue also pertains to rules, but not so much the safety ones as the don’t be a jack ass ones. No pace coaching means no pace coaching. This means you- guy on the mountain bike riding next to the pack of purple on the run course (yes I heard you after the race in the transition area recounting your activities saying no one seemed to mind you bending the rules: newsflash, we mind). No outside aid means no outside aid. This means you- guy squatting in the bushes on the run course taking and filling orders exclusively for our purple friends. Its friggin’ annoying.

Issue 3: how much “training” do you do? I hear a lot of cheering and hoopla, but it should not take anyone who’s been training 6 hours to complete an olympic distance race. How about less “you can do it” and more “here’s how you do it” and “whatever you do, don’t do it this way”. Your new athletes should not be learning the rules for the 1st time at the pre race meeting! Please keep up the good work with the raising of the funds, but show a little charity to your fellow racers and try not to be a 300 person hazard.

PS: I do feel a bit uneasy having feelings of animosity toward a charitable organization.

2

You know I am going to agree with you…

I am calling the fire dept now…

3

Like you, I think TInT’s goals are admirable and, in fact, hit home rather closely. During a Navy deployment in '97 one of my squadronmates lost his adult sister to L just after we went “blue water” on our way to the Persian Gulf. …Nothing to do except stay with Stork 24/7…just so he was never alone with it. That experience is always with me.

That said, I think their goal is terrific. Rather than cast dispersions on the organization, however, I’d rather say that some of their “coaches” could use some coaching. Whether at races or organized training events, I’ve consistently seen behavior that could stand correction. In particularly, the North County San Diego group sponsors frequent runs on Sunday mornings. I ride long on Sunday mornings. I like to yell “go Team” to them as much as possible. Still, I’ve often encountered groups running three to five abreast on Pacific Highway in the bike lane (really a MUT in the area along Carlsbad State Beach) with a coach running right behind them. I’ve never asked them to move over so as not to force us bikers into traffic, yet I think I should. Likewise, I’ve often considered emailing their local chapter to ask much the same. I’m not confident that my concerns would be received positively.

Dunno. I think their cause is great, and I often race on behalf of a different but similar health-related charity. I value the intent. …It’s their frequent, seeming nation-wide methodology that could use some minor adjustments…hopefully on a positive note without getting confrontational (either direction).

4

It is sad when you hear from people who have actually been involved with T in T and other fund raising groups, that the “coaches” and “mentors” constantly check up on their fundraising efforts instead of their training for an event. Someone told me that they were borderline harrassed by their ‘coaches’ to meet or exceed their fundraising goal. It has been down right scary to see how many people come VERY unprepared to do a full marathon in June in Kona and end up in the med tent or the hospital, instead of being sensable and doing the half marathon instead.

5

No doubt, TNT is not without its faults. I was once contacted by our local chapter to coach their winter program, and would have enjoyed doing so, but my own personal schedule and challenges of preparing people for an event well with widely varying skill and experience levels was well beyond my abilities as a “coach”. Also, although I’ve been in the industry over 23 years and done over 200 triathlons as well as worked as staff at numerous training camps I am not an accredited, USAT certified “coach” and do not hold a degree in exercise physiology or any formal cacoching training or credential. Because of those reasons, I decided to not pursue coaching the TNT crowd.

That said, I am an enthusiastic supporter of the Leukemia and Lymphoma’s Team in Training Program.

The reasons I support the program are pretty basic: It brings people into the sport under at least some guise of structured preparation- it is so much better than nothing. It benefits a critical charity. It is good for my business since it does bring new people (customers) into the sport. It is social in nautre and some participants enjoy that experience. This is largely a solitary sport and the social dimension facilitated by the TNT organization provides an additional way for people to experience the sport that was previously not available.

You’re right: The program is not without fault. But the intention and execution are at the worst, quite good, and I’ll argue strongly that it is so much better than nothing at all.

TNT has taken a lot of criticism, some of it ill-intentioned and mean spirited (not yours- yours is articulate and observational) and I don’t see that mean-tenored criticsim as constructive or appropriate for a program that includes a lot of volunteers trying to do something that ultimately benefits a lot of people.

If you heard the stories of how readily the Leukimia and Lymphoma Society have directly benefitted people suffering from the disease then I think it is easy to be more enthusisatic about the program.

6

I’m not here to pick sides on this one, just to bring up some additional thoughts. I’ve never been associated with T-I-T. But bear me for a couple of questions.

When did your DNF from an oblivious T-T-T rider happen?

When did you see/hear about the rider pacing on the run course?

Answered truthfully - did you know all of important rules before your first triathlon, or was it a process that happened over your first few races?

If a rider took you out in a race, then that rider should have been DQed also. Doesn’t matter what color shirt they were wearing.

There shouldn’t have been someone out on the bike course pacing along - but go watch one of the Ironmans, and you’ll see quite a few people out on the run course who shouldn’t be there, running or biking alongside an athlete for a while.

If you knew all of the big rules prior to your first race, I have to commend you - I think you’re in the minority. For most, I think it takes at least 2 or 3 races to learn most of them.

I don’t think T-I-T athletes need to be held to lower standards just because they are raising funds for an important cause. I also don’t think they should be held to higher standards just because they’re out there in a purple shirt. (Although it’s probably desirable for them as an organization to aim for that as part of pre-race prep). I did hear from a friend of a friend of a friend that a couple of years ago they were finding not all of the coaches were spending enough time going over the rules of engagement, and were working on changing that.

So, as a fellow athlete, I apoligize that one of us (everyone in the tri world) took you out of a race - you deserved better. If it happened a while ago, time to set it aside, and consider the now. Re-evalate how things are happening today, using the same standards as you would apply to anyone in the race, whatever shirt color they’re wearing. If you see a problem that looks like a lack of rules knowledge, then politely ask what state they are racing from, and leave it at that. Don’t post it to a forum first! Get in touch with their national office, and relay the details - they are the ones that want to see a positive image for the organization, and have to power to do something about it. If you feel that it’s still happening, and don’t get a good feeling from your private conversations, then come back and write about it.

Rule 1 about making a helpful critique that you hope will result in a positive change, vs. just ranting - direct the complaint to the right audience, someone who has the authority to make that change. Or, as I’ve heard on a number of companies’ advertisements - “If you like our XXXXXXX, tell your friends - if you have a problem, tell us”

7

Peanut alludes to a good observation: Risk is an inherit part of our sport. It comes from many sources.

8

I agree with KEJ. I appreciate the fact they are raising money for a good cause but I dont want to end up in the hospital as a result of it. Perhaps they should start a new division that starts last wave that is made up of just T-N-Ters. God knows there are enough of them to support it. I learned every rule before my first race. They are posted on the usat web site and you can read all of them in less than 1/2 hour. Not to mention there are only a few major rules, wear your helmet, dont draft, dont block, no outside assistance. How hard is that to memorize? I know some people do triathlons for fun only but some of us take it seriously. We train hard, know the rules, check our equipment and eat smart every day. We dont want to have all of that ruined on race day by someone who couldnt even be bothered to read and follow the rules. As for the t-n-ters that do know the rules, good job and keep up the good work. You are a triathlete.

9

I’ve thought for a long time that this is a problem of lack of communication and ignorance; I don’t think this is about people purposely being a “menace.” Triathlon could use a simple, straightforward, plain-language etiquette guideline. A mantra. A simple list that would be printed on race flyers and posted on race Web sites, and printed and put in every racer’s goody bag and then read by the RD during the pre-race meeting. I think all triathletes could benefit from this. It may not encompass all the rules, but it could cover the most critical, and would be better than nothing. Why not make this as easy as possible?

I think the most experienced athletes (well, maybe not all, but I hope most) know what those rules are, but I’ve never seen them written down, let alone distributed like this. Referring new athletes to the rules & regs on the USAT web site is obviously not enough. The current situation is like a tree falling in the woods with no one around to hear it. Does it make a sound? Yes. But the people who need to hear it aren’t around, so what good does it do?

10

preach on babe!

I go even further and hold a very unpopluar (and downright resented) position of somewhat anti-charity teams. On an individual basis it doesn’t bother me, but on the grand scale my personal experience in participating in events where there is a big presence of the teams has not been that positive. On the grand scale it is generally obnoxious and in-your-face, where there is alot of inconsideration of fellow participants, and a lack of awareness of standard race proceedures.

Also, on behalf of the athletes, it seems that the charities do little to really give back to the core groups that are giving it such huge funding. Are there ever any clinics on how to improve, not get injured, continue in the sport beyond/with the team, advanced nutrition guidance, etc? (I don’t ever recall seeing anything like this). It seems like such a one way street. Plus I read somewhere that for most participants it is a one time thing. They achieve the race, contribute the money, and that’s it. There is little to no encouragement for longevity from the charity (and meanwhile the charity has gotten this huge amount of money).

Again, I know this is an unpopular viewpoint, and I will acknowledge that alot of people have gotten alot of good out of participation in the teams and ultimately, I’m glad for anything that gets people up and moving. But events that have a huge presence of these teams, I simply don’t do anymore because it isn’t enjoyable for me due to the reasons that you mentioned. However I will happily stand on the sidelines and cheer for all participants…I just don’t want to run or race with 3000 or more purple jerseys, it’s too crazy and haphazard for me.

(ok, you probably hate me now)

meow.

kc

11

Perhaps they should start a new division that starts last wave that is made up of just T-N-Ters.<<

This is the case at Wildflower due to some “issues” in the past, including bike safety, blocking, etc.

To address Peanut’s question of specifics:

  • Pretty much every race I’ve done I’ve seen TNT coaches out pacing their athletes or handing out aid that wasn’t from an official aid station.

  • TNT non-racers cheering on only TNT people. That’s pretty damned sportsmenlike.

  • Pacific Grove one year I was assisting the head official. We had to clear the TNT area of the TA during the race as they had people in the TA to help them get dressed. (You would have thought they were going on a mulit-day expedition, not a sprint triathlon.)

  • Wildflower 200? (a few years ago)–a very ugly encounter with TNT athletes and head honchos and some NorCal tri club folks. TNT pretty said **ck you, we are better than you because we raise money. I believe if you did a search on rec.sport.triathlon you can find many, many posts about this.

  • Wildflower 2003–some TNT folks didn’t want to camp in the TNT “compound” since it was too crowded. They camped elsewhere (near where my SoCal friends were camping) and tried to put up signs on the toilettes that said “TNT ONLY”. Again, that entitlement thing.

  • I have a friend who did a marathon via TNT. She should have never attempted the marathon since she was starting pretty much from scratch and was about 50 pounds overweight. She ended up with a serious injury and little to no support from her TNT coach. Luckily she’s now OK, learned to train correctly, is much slimmer and did her first sprint tri last year.

My club started our new triathlete program partly as an option to TNT. I’d say the majority of people want the training program and social group, they don’t care what disease of the week it is.

clm

12

I just want to say that I can see your point regarding can be getting in the way, but don’t blame it on the coaches and mentors. Sometimes it is their fault, but a lot of times it is the participants fault. Participants don’t listen. They get nervous during a race and freak out. Also, a coach can’t make a participant do all of the training.

Having said that, I am currently a TNT participant and I’m going to race my first race at St. Anthony’s in 11 days. I have a goal of being a FOP’er at my first race and I think it is a challenging, but realistic goal. I wouldn’t have been this devoted and this prepared for my first race without my TNT coach. He is awesome and has done his best to prepare us for the race. One more thing, I am not the typical TNT participant. I am a 26 year old athleticly competitive male. I like the TNT program so much that I am going to be a mentor next season to help my participants so that they have a very good race and that they don’t prevent others from having a very enjoyable race as well.

13

yes, you nailed it–the entitlement attitude, and “better than you” because “we’re raising money”. this is exactly the attitude and behavior I’ve personally witnesses and encountered. I hate to say it, but any event that has a huge lot of TNT’ers participating…I run like hell…the opposite way. I’ve literally seen 6 abreast cheering about how great they are, meanwhile no one can pass without zig zagging all around. It’s like there is security in the numbers, and it’s ok to shit on everyone else. I just don’t get it.

Maybe through time this sort of thing will get better.

14

“On the grand scale it is generally obnoxious and in-your-face, where there is alot of inconsideration of fellow participants, and a lack of awareness of standard race proceedures.”

Absolutely. Almost anytime you get a large group together, those not in the group will feel uncomfortable with their presence, even if its positive. And most times you have a large group together they feel a certain safety-in-numbers feeling that allows them to trample all over others, even though that’s probably not the intent.

"Also, on behalf of the athletes, it seems that the charities do little to really give back to the core groups that are giving it such huge funding. Are there ever any clinics on how to improve, not get injured, continue in the sport beyond/with the team, advanced nutrition guidance, etc? (I don’t ever recall seeing anything like this). "

I cannot speak for other chapters (TNT operates in mostly independent fiefdoms), but the NYC chapter provides all of these along with their training program. There are individual clinics (outside of training sessions) on injury prevention, first aid, nutrition, and the ‘future’; all taught by qualified individuals (sports dr, nutritionist, etc), not just the coaches. You probably haven’t seen them because you haven’t participated in a TNT program. Clinics like these cost money to put on and so are only provided for participants in the program.

“Plus I read somewhere that for most participants it is a one time thing. They achieve the race, contribute the money, and that’s it. There is little to no encouragement for longevity from the charity (and meanwhile the charity has gotten this huge amount of money).”

This isn’t even close to true. The coaces of the NYC chapter provide plenty of guidance and reference on how to keep up with the sport after the race and encourage participants to come back for future events in various capacities. Those that do one race and are out probably had that idea from the beginning and are the same people that some other thread was complaining about doing one IM and calling it quits. Who cares if someone does just one race? Keep doing yours.

The charity is there to raise money. They take 25% of what is raised and use that to coach, outfit, and service the participants for that one race. Sure, they aren’t a tri-club and don’t put on clinics and workshops and workouts beyond the 3 month training period. They provide a coaching service for a finite period of time that is paid for by your friends’ donations. That part of it makes me a little queasy, but they’re very upfront about the percentages and what it pays for.

“I just don’t want to run or race with 3000 or more purple jerseys, it’s too crazy and haphazard for me.”

That’s probably a great idea. Its a race full of newbies and no matter how much the coaches harp on the rules, there will always be that pack mentality. As an aside, I know that the NYC chapter of TNT is very heavy on discussing and demonstrating and reminding about the ‘big’ rules: drafting, blocking, helmets, so if an individual or group is breaking those rules, its because they’re inconsiderate jerks, not because they don’t know any better. And there are inconsiderate jerks everywhere, its just easier to pick on these ones because they all wear bright purple jerseys. I did a race with TNT but will similarly stay away from newbie races. If I were a woman, I wouldn’t be doing a danskin event either. Maybe less packs, but I’m willing to bet there’s plenty of rule violations.

Look, its not a perfect system, far from it. But your perceptions of what is provided and taught are WAY off. Think of these people as children and cut them a little slack. St. A’s did, that’s why they go off at the end now, so as not to ruin your precious race.

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like most arguments, there are two sides.

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First off, I can certainly see both sides of the the argument regarding TNT - there are some issues that need to be addressed. I am personally hoping to get involved as a coach this year, I’m very experienced and knowlegable in the sport. I’m getting involved with coaching because working with people on obtaining their fitness goals is a real passion for me.

I think there is a real opportunity to increase the level of coaches that TNT uses…I think a lot of times, because many experienced triathletes are caught up in their own work, training and family life, there just isn’t enough time to devout to coaching. A lot of time TNT has to settle for coaches who have done a triathlon or two, and are not the all the knowledgeable as to some of the specifics of the sport.

I think race directors deserve part of the blame for safety issues. I believe if they are inviting a bunch of newbies, then they need to plan things accordingly, with safety issues at the forefront.

Who cares about how long it takes someone to finish, as long as their finishing within established race cutoff times. This is something that’s done for fun, what better than to see someone, who a year ago couldn’t run a quarter of a mile come across that finsish line, knowing how much work it took them to get there.

If you’re upset and pouty :frowning: about someone not cheering for you…suck it up, it’s okay…you’re not the center of the universe.

I’ve never felt the “I’m better than you” attitude, if anything I get that from non-TNT folks. In fact, I would say that many triathletes are some of the most arrogant, self-centered people I’ve ever met. There’s very few people I’ve met in the sport, I’d ever associate myself with outside of training and racing.

17

I understand your frustrations with TnT athletes. I agree that this its a wonderful cause, but that these athletes can be oblivious to proper etiquette. As someone who has been involved with TnT as a coach, I can tell you that there is a lot of emphasis on fundraising. In some places, I’m sure this is stressed by coaches. However, I view my role as strictly that of ‘athletic coach’ and not ‘fundraising coach’. I have tried to relay all necessary information to my athletes including nutrition, proper recovery and rules/etiquette, in addition to monitoring their training. The problem is that they aren’t accountable to me. They’re accountable to the organization who is asking them to raise money. I am a volunteer, so they have no real incentive to follow my instruction. They’re goals are laudable, but sometimes the effort and dedication don’t quite measure up. I frequently have athletes who don’t show up for training sessions and who don’t communicate with me at all. I think its fine to offer constructive criticism to these people. Treat them the same way you would any other athlete with whom you share the road. Just know that there are some conscientious coaches out there trying to instruct them on the complete sport of triathlon.

18

my real issues certainly aren’t with the coaches, or the participants themselves (although I have been annoyed at times).

my biggest issues are with the charities themselves who get so much, and personally I feel that there is little give back, especially beyond the training time. yes, it’s a charity, and yes it’s about money for them. but this group of participants is raising a ton of money–a ton–it seems that the charities could cultivate and nurture this source of funding alot better than it does. it would only benefit them, and everyone else involved. how about the charities sponsoring some kind of free clinic for race directors to address the topics associated with having huge groups of TNT’ers at their races? My point is, for all they get, there could be additional giveback, if anything to contiue/increase the funding that is coming out of it.

anyway, it’s a system, it’s flawed. so it goes.

19

Triathlon could use a simple, straightforward, plain-language etiquette guideline. A mantra. A simple list that would be printed on race flyers and posted on race Web sites, and printed and put in every racer’s goody bag and then read by the RD during the pre-race meeting.

You mean this isn’t standard in all race goody bags? We seem to always get something like that down here- one page from the head ref talking about bike etiquette and other major rules, often printed on the other side of the course map.

21

Agree totally. The basic problem is that the TNTers treat the race as one big team party/celebration. It’s as though the whole thing has been organized for them to raise money rather than it being a race they are using to raise money. Big difference. They and their supporters (yes, it’s a big generalization) seem to ignore the presence of all the other competitors. I’ve noticed very litttle cheering comeing from TNT people for anyone other than TNT members. No sense of the triathlon community/tribe. Just my observations. And, forgive me, can’t people just DONATE money to a good cause anymore. It’s like companies that donate $100 to a local charity every time a Yankee hits a home run. And what if they suck this year? Too bad for the charities? “Sorry, A-Rod had a bad year. No money for research. The cure will have to wait till he breaks out of his slump.!”

Frank