If you were Mayo and you knew that it didn’t matter how hard you put out on the TTT you were going to lose 2.5 minutes to the other GC contenders, would you and your team ride a “comfortable” ride, so the legs are a little fresher on those stages where your strengths are?
A new rule, and a stupid rule.
clm
No you gotta still leave it on the road. That 2.5 could stretch to 5 if you half ass it. Might not be much on paper but this is going to be a tight tour.
You can not loose more than 2.5 minutes in the TTT. This is a new rule in this TdF.
Felix
…that would put most of the field out of the race… where does this info come from?
Axel
“In a controversial decision, the Tour organizers have decreed that in 2004 no rider on a team that finishes within the time limit on the TTT stage will lise more than 2.5 minutes on the General Classification regardless of how far back the team finishes from the winning team”
http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~mirvine/
not sure where the official rules are found
.
oh yeah! just cuz the Posties keep smoking people…
Ok changed my mind. If the rule is true I would take a fun tour of the countryside and stop to have a nice lunch and picture taking.
Is there no rule to avoid this?
I think the rule is that you have to make the cutoff. If you make the cutoff, then your maximum loss is 2.5’
It is hard to see any other reason for this than to hurt Armstrong. Reminds me of the French yelling dope’ at him in previous years.
Can’t find the official rules on the TDF site, but from a newspaper article in October:
Also, the July 7 team time trial will be weighted so that no team can gain more than 2 minutes, 30 seconds, so as not to ``give good riders in weaker teams too much disadvantage,‘’ Leblanc said.
I think people are looking at the new TTT rule backwards. Remember there is no law that says the Tour has to include a team trial time. For many years lately, it didn’t. There was criticism that strong riders on weaker teams (think LeMond on ADR) were at too great a disadvantage because of their teams. The question then was should the TTT be eliminated. The compromise was to keep the TTT but limit the time a rider could lose as long as he finished with his team. So instead of complaining about how a team can only lose 2.5 minutes, remember the alternative was not to have a TTT but a flat stage where there would be no significant time differences.
And while 2.5 minutes difference in the first week may not be a knockout blow. That much time lost (and the number of riders between someone that far back and the leaders) would put a rider at a serious tactical disadvantage later in the race. As one example think of it this way: if a rider is second and attacks, there is only one rider (or team) who is threatened and will chase. If the rider in 10th attacks, there are 9 riders who see their position threatened and any or all of them may work together to chase.
I suppose the teams still have to finish within the percent of the winners time so they still can’t totally sandbag. . .but if you can finish 8 minutes down on the winner and only lose 2.5 minutes. . .why ride at full capacity if that still only gets you within 3 minutes of the winners. . .the result is still 2.5 minutes down.
Stupid rule. Fairness? No.
It’s a dumb rule I think.
After all it is a team event basically isn’t it.
Every other stage teams all work together to get a rider into the best position.
So I don’t see the TTT any different.
If the team isn’t strong enough then I reckon bad luck.
The rule gives an advantage to the GC rider who has a weak TTT.
For sure they will not ride hard, there is no reason to, they will save their legs and just cruise through & ensure they make the cut off time.
If the Cut off is 8%. Then you can finish at most 6.5 minutes if the winning team if the winning team rides at 50kph, at 55kph its about 5.5 minutes. So if the winning team is cruising at 55kph you still have to be doing atleast 50kph to make the time cut. You can’t stop and have a picnic. What would be a good comprimise would be to have this rule, but then also have the normal stage time bonus applied to the top 3 teams.
What is the cutoff time for the TTT where the 2.5 minute rule applies? I know that it’s usually a percentage, but whether the percentage means that the cutoff time will be 8 or 15 minutes will make a big difference.
This rule sucks but I do think if you’re Mayo and you’re going to lose 2.5 minutes regardless then you may as well take it easy.
I think the rule is anti-competitive. I’ve got a much better idea, just shorten the TTT, make it 30-40K; that way even the weaker teams will only lose so much time and you guard against any “sandbaggers”.
Just my 0.02 cents
Dave from VA
Looking at last years rules the time cut was 25% for indivudual riders with a maximum loss of 7min. Lat year the worsts team finish 4:55 back.
I agree that initially it is somewhat of an advantage to weaker TTT teams…
But if you have a strong team then I say drill it for the TTT. You do two big things: (1) make a statement that you’re here to kick ass and you’re not f*&king around. It’ll put Mayo’s tail between his legs. (2) force the weaker TTT teams to dig deep to get within the cutoff. That will hurt them way more than it will hurt you (you = the top CG guys on those strong TTT teams)…
so as not to ``give good riders in weaker teams too much disadvantage,‘’ Leblanc said. Hahaha! The TTT was put back in precisely because the 2000 USPS team wasn’t strong. Well from LeBlanc’s perspective it is his job to make the race as difficult as possible for LA. The last thing that I want is for the possibility of someone saying “The course gave Armstrong #6.” That said, if LA were French I think the courses would be tailor made for his strengths. To quote the great Stan (to Butters) from South Park “ …But someday you are going to have to stop running from what happened and start dealing with it. Otherwise you might as well just move to France with all the other pussies.”
If you are Euskatel you take your climbers and sand-bag (as much as you can) the TTT. Mayo would lose 2min anyway.
Where in France did you live and how long did you stay there?
As fun as it is to watch, they should have never brought the team TT back, IMO.
I lived just outsinde of Tours for three years, with all the other pritties ;-).
The way you phrased it, “you knew you were going to lose 2.5 minutes to the other GC contenders” its an easy call. Take it easy and save your legs. But I don’t think you can have any confidence that that is the way it is. Euskatel only lost 3:22 last year and they are supposed to be a way better TTT team this year. They have real domestiques/rolleurs (some of whom were selected and brought in at least in part to help in the TTT) and supposedly have some team unity (like maybe they actually practiced the TTT once or twice and will actually try to ride together). All of this is a switch from last year where they were a bunch of individuals who cared only about themselves and rode the TTT looking like a bunch of drunk cat 5s.
Plus, the TTT field is no stronger and might be weaker this year. USPS is probably as strong but two of the top teams from last year (Bianchi and ONCE) are gone. T-Mobile will obviously be strong, probably stronger than last year, maybe even stronger than Bianchi was last year but that is one strong team rather than two and Liberty will be a shell of what ONCE was, at least for the TTT.
I could easily see them only losing 2:00 or 2:15 to USPS and T-Mobile. Others may disagree but I think it is worth working hard for a shot at saving 15-30 seconds.